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href="http://www.eda.com.tw/showroom/mallset_u.php?SOB=14175&Nm=%E8%A7%92%E8%89%B2%E6%89%AE%E6%BC%94" rel="nofollow">角色扮演</a>edahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05275057469466286368noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17646926.post-11775780821764543642008-10-04T06:15:00.000-04:002008-10-04T06:15:00.000-04:00I have some reading to do...and a bone to pick wit...<B>I have some reading to do...and a bone to pick with the dummies in the White House!</B>Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04223857279649428807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17646926.post-74749317682655021492008-10-02T16:32:00.000-04:002008-10-02T16:32:00.000-04:00I do think Gov't can make adiference for the great...I do think Gov't can make adiference for the greater good. I think we have to remember that those in elected office are just like you and I (not Torrance and Not Kelso). They have an enormous task. I think to do nothing would be a difficult pill to swallow, and I also know they cannot not give the President a blank check.<BR/><BR/>I do not know what the final answer will be.Babz Rawls Ivyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04059921674059371076noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17646926.post-22628349266341043042008-10-02T13:16:00.000-04:002008-10-02T13:16:00.000-04:00jersey girl,First, will you lend me some money? I ...jersey girl,<BR/><BR/>First, will you lend me some money? <BR/><BR/>I want to borrow money from someone who believes I am not required to repay it.<BR/><BR/>Second, you have misread what the economists are saying. Maybe you are in over your head.<BR/><BR/>Anway, how about that loan? How much will you lend me?no_slappzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04207475509053402475noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17646926.post-822302121570810242008-10-02T12:55:00.000-04:002008-10-02T12:55:00.000-04:00Again, if hundreds of the world's top economists a...Again, if hundreds of the world's top economists and Nobel Laureates disagree with you, then I'd say perhaps you're wrong. There's no point in arguing about it. I'll take their word over yours, and Bush's, any day. <BR/><BR/>It's not like the US has 700 Billion dollars laying around, itching to be spent. We will be borrowing this money from China. Who will be paying for years to repay this debt? Tax payers. Let's hope the Chinese government is as forgiving about debt as the US government seems to be.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17646926.post-35215726746978249832008-10-02T11:45:00.000-04:002008-10-02T11:45:00.000-04:00jersey girl,Based on your belief that borrowers wh...jersey girl,<BR/><BR/>Based on your belief that borrowers who default on mortgage loans are NOT the cause of our current problem, it's clear you think it's okay to borrow money and refuse to repay it.<BR/><BR/>If Congress accepts your view -- and it might -- that means for years to come it will be very difficult for you to borrow money.<BR/><BR/>Since you believe borrowers can refuse to repay debts, you have to accept the consequences. In the future lenders will only lend to people who can get by without a loan.<BR/><BR/>The old joke about banks will become true again. That's the joke about banks only lending money to people who don't need the loan.<BR/><BR/>In the future it will take downpayments of at least 20% before mortgages are approved.<BR/><BR/>Even in the new housing market where prices have fallen, a huge percentage of first-time buyers will have to wait years before they have enough downpayment money to receive a mortgage.<BR/><BR/>Meanwhile, you still seem to believe that the bankruptcies of Bear Stearns and Lehman Brothers, and the fire-sale of Merrill Lynch, the near collapse of AIG, the failure of Washington Mutual and IndyMac Bank, and the near failure of Wachovia are the outcome of earning profits.no_slappzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04207475509053402475noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17646926.post-53197949343194351172008-10-02T08:17:00.000-04:002008-10-02T08:17:00.000-04:00Jay MidniteIt is not that it is as if they act as ...Jay Midnite<BR/>It is not that it is as if they act as if something is better than n othing, which tells me being prudient is not as important as panicing, i just think they have not thought this out and that time is relative and that the bill is nothing but mere PANICAll-Mi-T [Thought Crime] Rawdawgbuffalohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08843040863123899426noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17646926.post-65194119404889938032008-10-02T08:07:00.000-04:002008-10-02T08:07:00.000-04:00Sorry, No Slapzz, but in order for you to be right...Sorry, No Slapzz, but in order for you to be right, these economists and professors/Nobel Laureates have to be wrong:<BR/><BR/>http://faculty.chicagogsb.edu/john.cochrane/research/Papers/mortgage_protest.htm<BR/><BR/>No offense, but somehow I think they know a tad more than you do. And as they said, investors took risks to earn profits, so they must bear the losses, not the taxpayers.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17646926.post-70341101426321954982008-10-01T21:22:00.000-04:002008-10-01T21:22:00.000-04:00Yes Mr. Stephens, please answer my previous questi...Yes Mr. Stephens, please answer my previous question:<BR/><BR/><B>"So who thinks the government/banks and the Federal Reserve is just so incompetent and stupid and really doesn't know what to do?<BR/><BR/>And who thinks the government/banks and the Federal Reserve are making a few last minute attempts to rob the taxpayers before they let the depression/hyper-inflation (whatever may come) hit?"</B>Jay Midnytehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00704137076150237058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17646926.post-51938656356190627502008-10-01T13:53:00.000-04:002008-10-01T13:53:00.000-04:00jersey girl, you wrote:"Yep, the corporations ARE ...jersey girl, you wrote:<BR/><BR/>"Yep, the corporations ARE getting the money."<BR/><BR/>You seem to have no understanding of debt. If the owner of a house has a mortgage, he is legally obligated to send a monthly mortgage payment to the holder of that debt. It does not matter who holds the debt. The borrower is legally responsible for his monthly payment.<BR/><BR/>You wrote:<BR/><BR/>"The government is proposing to buy all of the toxic debt back, thereby leaving the each company without substantial, unpaid debt."<BR/><BR/>The government is proposing to buy the debt for much much less than the amount owed. <BR/><BR/>That means the holders of the debt will take HUGE losses when the debt is sold to the government.<BR/><BR/>That is why Bear Stearns, Lehman Brothers were bankrupted and why Merrill Lynch was sold in a fire-sale to Bank of America.<BR/><BR/>You said:<BR/><BR/>"That means they profit."<BR/><BR/>With this statement, you are saying it is possible to earn a profit while losing billions of dollars. If it were possible to earn a profit by losing money, we'd all have more money than we would ever need.<BR/><BR/>You said:<BR/><BR/>"It's not like the government is going to buy those mortgages and then excuse them..."<BR/><BR/>But that's exactly what's happening for the people who defaulted. The government -- the taxpayers -- are buying the defaulted mortgages at a big discount from the original amount borrowed. The debt comes with the house, which is the collateral that will also be sold to repay the outstanding debt.<BR/><BR/>You said:<BR/><BR/>"...the people who owe money to big business now for their homes will still owe it - just to the government."<BR/><BR/>If that were true, things would be fine. But it's not true.<BR/><BR/>The people who defaulted owed money to the organizations that either originated or owned their loans. That list includes banks, mortgage companies, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and others in the financial services industry. Most had mortgage insurance that was expected to pay off their mortgage if they defaulted.<BR/><BR/>They defaulted and they are forfeiting their homes to settle their debts. That's it for them.<BR/><BR/>You said:<BR/><BR/>"We don't get our debt excused, THEY do."<BR/><BR/>We? "We" are the people who borrowed money to buy homes. "We" are the people who defaulted. "We" are the people whose debt is to be bought by ALL taxpayers, which means "We" are the people getting the benefits.<BR/><BR/>"They" are the companies collapsing in bankruptcy because borrowers defaulted on debt "They" now own.<BR/><BR/>Meanwhile, a key component of the Rescue Plan is a change in bankruptcy law to permit the modification of mortgage terms as well as the amount of principal owed.<BR/><BR/>Thus, passing the bill may result in allowing the defaulters to get the interest rate on their mortgages lowered AND get a reduction in the amount of money they must repay. <BR/><BR/>By that I mean if a borrower defaulted on a $200,000 mortgages, the bankruptcy court might reduce the face value of the mortgage from $200,000 to $100,000 if he's able to support a mortgage of that amount. Nice deal. A $100,000 gift from ALL taxpayers to the defaulting borrower.<BR/><BR/>You asked:<BR/><BR/>"How that's not profitting on the backs of the taxpayers is beyond me."<BR/><BR/>Beyond you? It shouldn't be.no_slappzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04207475509053402475noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17646926.post-70611712849751420442008-10-01T13:17:00.000-04:002008-10-01T13:17:00.000-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.no_slappzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04207475509053402475noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17646926.post-43213730793508341072008-10-01T11:25:00.000-04:002008-10-01T11:25:00.000-04:00i read all your posts man, i like many of the poli...i read all your posts man, i like many of the political ones ill try n comment them more =)♔Jaimiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10084901377285742443noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17646926.post-26112274402958154962008-10-01T10:06:00.000-04:002008-10-01T10:06:00.000-04:00Yep, the corporations ARE getting the money. The g...Yep, the corporations ARE getting the money. The government is proposing to buy all of the toxic debt back, thereby leaving the each company without substantial, unpaid debt. That means they profit. It's not like the government is going to buy those mortgages and then excuse them...the people who owe money to big business now for their homes will still owe it - just to the government. We don't get our debt excused, THEY do. How that's not profitting on the backs of the taxpayers is beyond me.<BR/><BR/>There is enough blame to go around. People who made bad choices are just as much to blame as the lenders who convinced them they really could afford a McMansion. We had our home built. Signed the contracts 5 years ago this month. We were approved for about 200K more than we knew we could comfortably afford, so we said "thanks but no thanks" and decided to live within our means. But with the mindset of many people, they want what everyone else has, in their eyes...a big house, big yard, big car etc. They figured that an ARM wouldn't come back to bite them in the ass, and we knew it absolutely would. Same thing with the interest only, sub-prime and 80/20 loans. If you have to be creative to afford something, you can't afford it. But people didn't look at the reality of their bank account, only what they hoped it would be in the future, and now they're paying for it. They are as much to blame as the lenders, and while I don't want to see anyone lose their homes, I also don't feel like I should be punished for making a good decision while they get rewarded for making bad ones. <BR/><BR/>I have a good friend who works in big business/finance. I asked him for his perspective on this. When he has a chance to detail it, I'll post it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17646926.post-3819157695042312492008-09-30T22:22:00.000-04:002008-09-30T22:22:00.000-04:00no_slappz from what i rtead, i stand my ground - T...no_slappz <BR/>from what i rtead, i stand my ground - THEY DONT KNOW IF IT WILL WORK. they wanna go home and say they tried<BR/><BR/>T.C. <BR/>it is simply grand standing<BR/><BR/>Anonymous Anonymous <BR/>good look and it shows Bush aint even got no clout w the GOP<BR/><BR/><BR/>rainywalker <BR/>now that will be self correcting<BR/><BR/>RealHustla <BR/>i messed up again babe?<BR/><BR/>Nicki Nicki Tembo <BR/>dont let slapppz get yo bp up u will get used to him lol<BR/><BR/>Jay Midnyte <BR/>me, me me, call on me teacher lol<BR/><BR/>T.Allen-Mercado <BR/>im sorry but this is more serious to me sister<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>clnmike <BR/>and how<BR/><BR/>Nicki Nicki Tembo <BR/>applause from me<BR/><BR/>Bigg Syyno <BR/>thanks folk<BR/><BR/>Jersey Girl<BR/>we always get our foot cut off ala kunte kinte<BR/><BR/><BR/>slappz<BR/>u coming kind of hard lol - u talk like this bill is click your heel 3 times and it is all solved magically lol<BR/><BR/>KELSO'S NUTS <BR/>well said but u know how we get down over in this camp. is the market free is my query<BR/><BR/>Jay Midnyte <BR/>point well taken<BR/><BR/>Kenya <BR/>be pissed baby your tax dollars deserve such<BR/><BR/>brran1 <BR/>collateralizing debt will lead to our down fall like the roman empire<BR/><BR/>Tigress <BR/>dont believe the hype i dont listen to tv folk, i read and make my own conclusionsAll-Mi-T [Thought Crime] Rawdawgbuffalohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08843040863123899426noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17646926.post-89654867145390153172008-09-30T22:06:00.000-04:002008-09-30T22:06:00.000-04:00I've been watching so much news trying to figure o...I've been watching so much news trying to figure out what's going on that I'm sick of it. It reminds me of something I heard in a movie once that rang true. People in Washington are so afraid of not knowing they'll agree just to avoid coming off as the only one who doesn't know.<BR/><BR/>It wasn't until I started watching the news that I heard the flip side of not approving the bail-out. They been on the nay-sayers without asking why they didn't vote for it. Now I know why they didn't vote for it and I don't blame them.<BR/><BR/>Politicians are very good at pushing the fear factor down American's throats and we get scared and don't ask questions. "WE" need to start asking questions first before we put our John Hancock on anything. That's what they people did by saying no. I can't blame them for that. Most of them were saying give me something that makes sense.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17646926.post-56781802277381952532008-09-30T19:43:00.000-04:002008-09-30T19:43:00.000-04:00It IS on the banks because they shouldn't have giv...It IS on the banks because they shouldn't have given loans to people who obviously could not afford to pay them back OR people who's credit was BS. What's the point of the whole Credit Rating System if you're gonna give loans to every Tom, Dick and Rakeem that applies for one?<BR/><BR/>And it is ironic that the Dollar is falling so fast when there have been talks of a North American Currency, which would be similar to the Euro...brran1https://www.blogger.com/profile/09876585652112808612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17646926.post-14337430633961965842008-09-30T19:37:00.000-04:002008-09-30T19:37:00.000-04:00It pisses me off that they are rushing this thing....It pisses me off that they are rushing this thing. It's like they haven't learned anything. Rushing is how we got the USA PATRIOT Act with Americans being spied on and how we got this costly war. We don't even know the extent of this crisis. What other banks are going to fail? Does anyone even know.<BR/><BR/>And they want to give these rich irresponsible folks $700B with no strings attached. The CEOs of these companies are getting double-digit millions of dollars in salary and double-digit million of dollars in bonuses. If the companies can pay them that much maybe they should bail their own arses out.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17646926.post-40887630433284840412008-09-30T18:19:00.000-04:002008-09-30T18:19:00.000-04:00KELSORon Paul actually takes his job seriouslyKELSO<BR/>Ron Paul actually takes his job seriouslyJay Midnytehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00704137076150237058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17646926.post-55137613260977352772008-09-30T16:36:00.000-04:002008-09-30T16:36:00.000-04:00There were a lot of interesting ideas out there OT...There were a lot of interesting ideas out there OTHER than Paulson's throwing gasoline on the fire.<BR/><BR/>I liked some of what Barney Frank and Ron Paul were proposing in using a government credit line to establish a liquid two-way market in distressed repackaged mortgage securities. <BR/><BR/>Personally, I would have no trouble with a very low floor of 2c or 3c. I'd accept all risk of default as ultimate beneficial lender of tiny portions of a lot of properties but in accepting the risk, I'd be required to accept anyone's ability or inability to pay the underlying mortgages. I think I could do so well in this that I'd be willing to take on super-distressed packages of mortgages on homes in "redlined" areas bearing all risk for each discounted package of mortgages on Miami, Orange County, Marin County or LA County oceanfront.<BR/><BR/>NOBODY would get kicked out of their homes and I would not need the 2004 Bush Bankruptcy Police to get me my money because I want the risk in exchange for the deep discount. <BR/><BR/>Hey, a free-market solution in which "speculators" can do their thing with their own money and nobody has to go without shelter. A "both" solution instead of "either/or" with no hating involved. What a concept!<BR/><BR/>I could do this for myself in tiny size. <BR/><BR/>I could easily raise a fund from banks throughout MERCOSUR to manage portfolios of these under those conditions under the condiditon that the banks in the MERCOSUR zone would only be required to give me their USD to manage. They will only part with USD right now.KELSO'S NUTShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14636889771989672795noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17646926.post-84893551716805716882008-09-30T13:06:00.000-04:002008-09-30T13:06:00.000-04:00jersey girl,The "corporations" are NOT getting mon...jersey girl,<BR/><BR/>The "corporations" are NOT getting money from the government. The money is to be spent acquiring the mortgage loans that borrowers refused to repay.<BR/><BR/>The defaulting borrowers are getting the bulk of the benefit of the $700 billion. Congress is at work attempting to repair the problem resulting from the large number of people who welshed on their loans.<BR/><BR/>You should at least blame the people who are at fault -- the deadbeats.no_slappzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04207475509053402475noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17646926.post-28635655901575506612008-09-30T13:01:00.000-04:002008-09-30T13:01:00.000-04:00nicki nicki, you wrote:"Let's set the rec...nicki nicki, you wrote:<BR/><BR/>"Let's set the record straight: CRA only applies to commercial banks (FDIC insured)..."<BR/><BR/>First, do you know of any other agency insuring banks in addition to the FDIC? <BR/><BR/>Second, I realize you know nothing about the banking business due to your preceding claim. The Savings & Loan Crisis changed the landscape in ways that you do not understand.<BR/><BR/>You wrote:<BR/><BR/>"...not many of the lenders we see at the heart of the current financial crisis...."<BR/><BR/>Are you kidding? Wachovia and the long list of other banks that sliding downhill. They are commerical banks.<BR/><BR/>Of course the investment banks have already begun to disappear. Lehman, Bear, Merrill. If Glass-Steagall were still in effect, things would be worse. Thus, that piece of deregulation was a big help to the economy.<BR/><BR/>You wrote:<BR/><BR/>"CRA had been in full swing approx 25 yrs before this crisis erupted."<BR/><BR/>Again, like many others, you are confusing the cause with the final outbreak of a disease.<BR/><BR/>The CRA forced lenders down the slippery slope of giving deadbeats money.<BR/><BR/>You wrote:<BR/><BR/>"Deciding whether to approve bad loans or make a profit was never an issue with the banks covered under CRA."<BR/><BR/>There was never an issue about profit. It was always was and always will be the goal of lending.<BR/><BR/>However, the CRA and related legislation required banks to originate loans if they wanted to maintain high CRA ratings. The secondary market for mortgage loans allowed them to sell the lower quality loans to investors.<BR/> <BR/>You wrote:<BR/><BR/>"CRA over the last several years had began to lose it's relevance..."<BR/><BR/>The preceding sentence demonstrates your total lack of knowledge regarding banking.<BR/><BR/>You prove it by stating:<BR/><BR/>"...only 1 in 4 subprimes were made by these institutions under this law..."<BR/><BR/>Subprime loans are as old as lending itself. That's something I am sure you do not know. Second, most people who take subprime loans have repaid them or are repaying them.<BR/><BR/>Do you have any idea about the default rate occurring among subprimes underwritten by commercial banks versus other originators? <BR/><BR/>You wrote:<BR/> <BR/>"...yet for the lenders not under CRA the law didn't make them lend, greed did."<BR/><BR/>Only a nitwit would believe that lenders can make money lending money that is not repaid. <BR/><BR/>Meanwhile, you do not seem to realize that if a "underserved neighborhood" is served by mortgage banks, then the commericial banks benefit because the presence of the mortgage banks means the neighborhoods are getting the lending services the law demands -- even if the residents feel they have no obligation to repay borrowed money.no_slappzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04207475509053402475noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-17646926.post-391082908635533632008-09-30T12:45:00.000-04:002008-09-30T12:45:00.000-04:00I'm with you on this. I just posted about it today...I'm with you on this. I just posted about it today, 'cause I don't know what to think about it. In many respects, it's like punishing the people who made good choices and rewarding those who made bad ones. Giving these corporations 700 BILLION dollars doesn't make me feel good - how are we supposed to trust that they'll magically start making good decisions when it's their bad decisions that got them in this mess in the first place? I just don't get it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com