Sunday, November 02, 2008

Dewey revisited

As I write this, I figure there are about 36 hours left before we find out who the next president of this great country will be. I hope Obama can pull it out, albeit I wrote my name in on the ballot, but I feel that McCain will be that next one. Unless he passes out on his 8 state tour tommorow and folks can see what old age will get them.

Don’t hate folk, let me just tell you why. First, I will never forget what I learned in History regarding Dewey and Truman. But that is besides the point. Mathematically, even including or not including McCain’s appearance on SNL, America has a history replete with skeletons in its closet. I don’t expect most white folks to agree but America was made and founded centrally on racism. This is a truism that even many of my arch nemesis will not disagree with. From the fundamentally flawed constitution which Obama spoke about concerning all other than white being three-fifths of white men; to the collective unconscious that may assert that many white folks feel they must do for African Americans before we do for ourselves. And dont let it rain, or be cold anywhere Obama urban supports live for they may not show up.

Hillary Clinton knew this and campaigned to this and is even seeing her words used in McCain’s robot calls. Admit it, a lot of yawl aint gone vote, yawl think it is in the bag. Shit yawl basically complacent, I mean you don’t read the constitution – tell me im wrong. Then add to that them folks that may be mad that Obama always on each and every magazine cover, and on TV all the time – they may just want to prove a point. Then there are some folks who never ever will believe nor support that a man of color will have the interest of them when they know and don’t expect folks like them to care about others – more greed and selfishness that has been a trade mark of the impact of race in America.

Then two-thirds of voters this time gone be using new technology, like optimal scanning machines that aint even been field tested. Add to that provisional ballots, where if your middle initial is missing from your name, or you address on your license is different for what ever reason – you may be obviated as being a legal voter, shit may hit the fan and law suits may hold off the announcement of a victor for days if not weeks. I mean when I see McCain, in places like Peterborough, New Hampshire, or any where, it’s hard to count folks who aint white in the crowd. This aint racist, just math, like not supporting Israel is anti Zionist and not anti Semitic. So if Obama looses don’t trip, its American and will always be the place where General Amherst gave Indians on the trail of tears blankets infected with small pox and where dogs and water hoses where put on folk demanding their un-alienable rights. Think I’m tripping, ask Joe Lieberman. And McCain has the nerve to say he won’t be tested - I just say this, Russia don’t give a fuck about you either; they still putting missiles in Cuba, because your boy GWB put them in Poland. I mean, folks don’t want change although most black folks do and some white folks, the average American like how they been living since they ganked the Indians for turkey and cranberries back in the day of the Mayflower.

PS: had a ball skoolboi stopped by shop for some vino sat.


Amina said...

I am crossing fingers too... i am not american so i can't vote.
I was talking to my best friend yesterday (she lives in France) and she was telling me that in France, he has a huge support.
In the french media, they're closely following the elections because France is not ready AT ALL for a black president and Obama represents a mystery/fear/challenge and hope for the black community in France...

Amina said...

i forgot to say even my 2 year old godson kept saying on the phone cuute!!

The True Urban Queen aka Sharon said...

Even though I keep reading Obama is up in the polls I know that the only thing that matters is the actual votes on election day.

I am on edge over this election.
And I am scared that McCain may pull it off.

I'll cry for months.

Onika Pascal said...

I'm with Amina and TTUQ. I'm not a citizen..will be but after the elections (bummer) and I too have this heightened sense of anxiety. I can't begin to explain the emotion but do now that it is true that many will NOT vote, based on the belief that we "got this." I countdown the hours and minutes and in between make a list of the things that I can imagine will happen on Tuesday and for the rest of our lives.

[Emeritus] said...

thank you keeping it real. there are so many ways we can be fucked over.

Missy said...

...the complacency has me scared. Like I've said before, we wear the buttons and tees, even talk a good game but when it comes down to it, will we get out to vote?? I don't know. I want to believe but history has me fearful. You took it back to the trail of tears...I hadn't discussed THAT since college!

last of the real niggas said...

You know I don't trust them Polly want uhh's -- i'm just hoping for the best.

nicki nicki tembo said...

For the vast majority their ballots will be cast based on instincts. By that I mean that this election will fall along predefined lines.
Regardless of the victor, we're damned. Marionette's, the both of them!

rainywalker said...

They can't hold up the election to long, there are some dates in the Constitution even the Supreme Court can't pass. Then it would get very sticky!

Keith said...

I feel you fam, really I do...but I gotta go and do my thing just the same on November 4th.(We don't have early voting here) I got my fingers crossed, but at the same time,I expect either the rules to be changed at the last minute like Chris Rock said or some trick to be pulled...Still Naive as I may be,I hope that the better America shows up on Tuesday.

Lex said...

I agree completely with your assessment of the history of this country and the likely "complications" to surface Tuesday as I result of this legacy. But I want to believe the best about our people. I want to believe that enough of us have listened to Obama (even if it be the first time they've ever paid attention to the political process), and are not naive enough to believe that it's in the bag.

Not one second of the last 3 months matter if people don't show up to the polls -- rain, shine, sleet, snow, long lines, hunger pangs, wrong shoes or whatever.

This election has brought the racist foundation of America to the surface, in my opinion. And because of that, I certainly hope that folk don't sleep on the opportunity to do (albeit despite some challenges)what a generation ago would have involved dogs, hoses and countless false arrests.

uNWrItten* said...

i really truly hope he wins..but i dont know..

Linda said...

Have you seen the website 'if the world could vote' (I believe it's ?

Obama has about 80% of the WORLD's vote! and even 96% in our country..

too bad we can't say nothing.. *lol* ;)

greetings from the netherlands!

Jackie E. said...

I just really hope and pray that all the people that say they're gonna vote, actually get out there and do so! But like you said, anything is possible...

Kit (Keep It Trill) said...

Torrance, Is the real deal that you're writing in your own name instead of Obama (or an Independent) because you don't want to be disappointed?

As in disappointed, I mean that:

1) No Independent will possibly win, or
2) the election will be stolen or
3) McCain will win honestly, anyway, or
4) or worst of all, Obama will win - and then let us down in the next four years.

The possibility of #4 bothers me the most, but the alternative of a McCain-Palin presidency may rush the demise of civilization as we know it a little faster...

MangoButtahQueen said...

It would be nice if he won however..things will probably remain the same for the majority of black folk...the difference is that it will take a while for most black folk to realize that before they do anything.

With Mccain.... well you pretty much know you're screwed and prepare accordingly.

Political Disgust said...

It is going to be interesting if the 2 candidates split the popular and electoral vote. Then there will be more division between voters on each side of the political fence and many more years of the the 2 sides fighting, instead of moving forward with a common goal of fixing the country's current issues.

Political Disgust

Dope Fiend said...

im really hoping Obama get it but the cynic in me thinks otherwise! hopefully...! Fingers crossed!

Beautifully.Conjured.Up said...

I understand you may not be content with either presidential candidate. How could any of us be, for we each have desires and wants that range just like the diversity of this country...


I must be honest and say I feel your personal decisions to not partake in this election directly (you wrote your self in) is hypocritical and some what self righteous. There isn't anything wrong with you being scholarly, and researching your political ideologies with keen tatics, but there is something wrong with your proclaims of Black positivity and mobility (economics, education, social, political, etc.) yet not being totally supportive of this historical moment in time.

...just a thought...

ErynMyisha said...

I'm trying to remain optimistic. This is my first time voting, and honestly (not suprising to you), I porbably wouldn't have voted this election had it not been so potentially pivotal for the country. At this point, we don't have much to lose. As far as us voting, you're right. We're facing the obstacles of new technology, red tape, and bullshit technicalities that I feel are placed to throw off new voters. I did the best I can do at this point, I read my ballot back and forth and even in Spanish, voted Obama and mailed it in with a prayer.

BuelahMan said...

Hey Bro',

You and I both know that nothing will "change" if Barack is elected.

These two fuckers are twins of differing skin colors, when you look at the most prescient issues.

I won't vote for Barack Obama, but his color has absolutely nothing to do with it.

I am not fooled by his gift of gab and ambiguous messages of "hope" and "change" when he doesn't address the main issues that keep our country the Empire it is (which is the main issue facing us today).

Barack Obama is not good for this country. It 'may' help with racial issues... MAY being the key word. But the truth is that he is just barely better than the second of the Big Two that the Corptocracy picked for all of us to choose from.

Personally, I'd rather write in Raw Dawg Buffalo than vote for Barack Obama, for I feel that you deal in truth.

McCain and Obama are devoid of truth when it comes to the important shit.

They are the same shit, just a slightly different skin colors.

Satori said...

I would like to see Obama in the white house just because it is so historical and on FACE VALUE shows some sort of possible change is occurring. But, what is the most frustrating is all the CHANGE I hear people talking about. WHAT CHANGE?? The Govt is supposed to be a representative of the people and their views... on a whole peoples views havent really changed. People say they want something different.. cuz they are SELFISH.. if you ask people WHAT kind of change they want its economic related.. but its not so they can be comfortable. Its so they can have more MATERIAL things. The average american has food clothing and shelter. But we want dunks, ipods, iphones, rides etc. People talking about CHANGE but wont give the man on the corner any damn change.. for the most part.
Most people wont even "go green" cuz they cant be inconvenienced.
Nobody wants change.. they just want change in their pockets.

Tired of fake revolutionaries!
And even more frustrated that when Obama becomes president and its more of the same.. the standard he will be held to will be historic.
Change is about SELF.
Obama is just another candidate that was GIVEN to the people by those who run things. Why are we so easily misled?

Torrance Stephens - All-Mi-T said...

yep France is a trip and wer have always made folk fearful namely due to their actions not ours historically

The True Urban Queen aka Sharon
dont cry hon. Im just saying be objective with history as a guide

Onika Pascal
yep it is officially on

anytime scholar

Amherst was a foul mother shut yo mouth

last of the real niggas
I feel ya - LMBAO

nicki nicki tembo
so true and sad at the same time. real change means people have to change not ;polkiticians

True - mostly hyperbole on mybehalf - but a first time for everything has GWB posted and new PD, or EO's?

U are not naive just remebering history

well said for although folks wont admit it,. differences are supported here. racism and sexisim is alive and kicking in the USA

we just have to wait and see

yep i am wityh u - too bad
and this is a global world they say

Jackie E.
so true, anything is possible - im just leary, last time black folks they hope up high, MLK jr was assinated

Kit (Keep It Trill)
its ok to be disappointed, but as i have written before - whoever wins wont be able to do jack at this point, it will take 3 or four administrations (plus 10 years) the way i see for real change to occur, polotics is not as easy as physics

for black folks and most americans, the real color of our nation is GREEN

Political Disgust
thanks for the drive by and i couldf not have said it better

Dope Fiend
american breeds cynics but i know u see us from abroad and we often show our ass

how is voting my consciouis hypocritical - and i did it with bush-gore, and Bush-Kerry, and when Clinton ran too. Thats what liberty mean (never vote blindly - vote your conscious). u make it sound foul to vote as a free person

as long as u voted your conscious

all i can say is agree completely

MP said...

whatever will be will be.

Kofi said...

I can't wait until Wednesday so they can finally move on to 2012.

OG, The Original Glamazon said...

I'm just waiting to see. They RNC of course has DUG UP Jeremiah and has been playing commercials of those famed sermons all weekend in MA and MA is a blue state. Lord knows what they doing in the battleground states.

Some polls are reporting a 13 point lead which I think may backfire because folks won't go out in vote, kinda like Kerry/Bush. Many thought the other voters will take care of it.

I LOVE you wrote yourself in, some folks concentrated on who but for me it really is about voting even if you do pull the lever for the Ol' man. I just want us to get use to voting and using a right many died to get us.

Well I guess in two days we will know. I hope I'm happy!


MacDaddy said...

Yes, complacency may be a problem. If so, it will be in the North. In southern states like Georgia, Alabama and Virginia, black folks are voting in droves, many of them new voters. They remember when they-- or their parents-- couldn't vote at all.

The second question is: will Republicans and independents break free of their history of voting Republican (like their parents) and go for Obama? Like you say, some folks don't want to-- can't imagine and will not make real a brotha at the helm. Blessings.

Tammy said...

My niece and nephew are wishing they were 18 so they could

I have seen the ugly side of this and gotten into many arguments with my own brother in law who won't even BOTHER to listen to the issues because he refuses to vote for Obama because he's black..knowing that this ignorance is in my own family pisses me off more than I can ever put into words...

Sheliza said...

hey man, just wanting it all to be over because if I get one more damn email about Obama/McCain I will explode!!! lol! Have a great day :)

Aunt Jackie said...

i am disappointed in you although not surprised for writing in your own name...

par for the course of apathetic voters, particularly apathetic black voters!

i was at the 40th reunion of the SF State Strike this weekend, a place where teenagers banned with faculty members to close down their schools until their 13 demands for an Ethnic Studies Department were met.

It made me realize what a sad state of affairs many of us are in today...

Big Cheekz said...

u wrote in your own name? that seems like a waste of time & waste of a vote. BUT i respect your decision.

i actually almost didn't vote at all bcs Obama didn't sweep me off my feet in the beginning & i knew i didn't want another Repub in office. i ended up voting so i could have a say so - but i have felt more pressure to vote in this election than any others i've voted in.

NoRegrets said...

It was kind of uplifting and sad at the same time to read an article interviewing African American seniors about the election, and having them say "I always told my kids that they could do anything. Now it seems like they really can." Crap, I forget the exact quote, but basically they were saying they had told them encouraging words but never really believed their own words until now.

fairlane said...

I've been trying to tell people we're at war, but they don't seem to believe it, or, they don't want to believe it.

I still think we need a strong Third Party, but I won't be upset if Obama can somehow pull it off.

I haven't heard or read the word "ganked" in years.

Ensayn1 said...

T, the Fallacy of the U.S electorate. It's more important to be a winner rather than being conscious, or exercise your rights the way you have a right to do. Why would it be hypocritical to vote your conscious? Why is it apathetic to vote but, not for the perceived winner? Why would women, Black women at that, vote for a man rather than a two women of colour ticket, that would have a women's agenda on their platform? Perceived winner vs Conscious?

Torrance Stephens - All-Mi-T said...

doris Day kay sarah sarah

and how

OG, The Original Glamazon
i aqgree but sad aint it when you dont vote for who they dont want u too when i thought i had liberty

the last query is dead on point -i wonder what folks expect him to do?

folks are like that it is america let them vote their conscious. i know folks who voting for him cause he black - whats the difference

u and me both

Aunt Jackie
no body complained when i did it the last two elections - i am one never to tell a person who to vote for if they are competent - maybe im not competent. I respect your opinion - wish u would respect mine - disappointment says u dont

Big Cheekz
a waste to who? I read the constitution and most folks dont even know it - but they say that is a waste

it is true. we can, but the oligarchy reamins

folks dont get the 3rd party, they hating on me for voting my conscious, least i voted

Torrance Stephens - All-Mi-T said...

my point exactly its voting and not who u voting for

thanks and excellent query

BuelahMan said...

ensayn1 says:

It's more important to be a winner rather than being conscious, or exercise your rights the way you have a right to do. Why would it be hypocritical to vote your conscious? Why is it apathetic to vote but, not for the perceived winner? Why would women, Black women at that, vote for a man rather than a two women of colour ticket, that would have a women's agenda on their platform? Perceived winner vs Conscious?

Great comment, I must say. It describes what I have been experiencing... people more apt to be on a "winner's" side, than actually vote for their own needs and desires.

A perceived winner no matter how bogus the man is.

Beautifully.Conjured.Up said...

Outside of the notions that presidents are selected by members "unknown" to us, I feel as though this is a very critical moment in history that I feel very proud to partake much that I feel I'm obligated to use my freedom that people have fought, cried, and died over. As stated before, I understand your scholarly antics/research/etc., and often it is quite admirable, even rare; I don't understand your objectives in this political race when it is a very rare moment. Sometimes, I would read your blog, and I have yet to read any true empathy and support...some of the main things you tend to wishfully talk about in the various posts regarding the Black community, yet you show otherwise in this election. I'm not saying you have to be ridding Obama's dick, but just show some sort of support...some sort of common love and respect for the man's ventures (besides saying he isn't a socialist) and the door he has opened for the generations to come.

If you're going to be about it, then do it all the way. Don't half step, and don't waste anyone's time. True, we as Americans are fortunate to be given an opportunity to live out our "liberty and justice for all" via actions such as voting, but when you don't fully partake in a political race such as this one, I feel as though it is self righteous and making a mockery of the people involved in the past racial/political fights of this country (not to mention a waste of a vote). Yes, you do have the right to vote for yourself, but what does that do besides allow you to make use of your "liberty?"

Torrance Stephens - All-Mi-T said...

I fully partook - i voted. know mockery. is it because i voted MY conscious and not yours - this is a republic u know and not a democracy. If i had voted for Barr u would likely say the same - smh. next time i will ack u to decide who I should vote for, better yet give u my vote since u are holier than thou

BuelahMan said...

The rare moment that beautifully conjured up discusses is the fact that it is a black man running, I assume.

Forget the fact that he is the same as the other dude running. Forget that he has capitulated on Warrantless Wiretapping. On Empire building. On offshore drilling. On Israeli-Palestinian conflict, etc, etc, etc

Vote for him cause he's a black man.


Do yourself a favor and if you want to vote for a black person, vote for the real progressive (and female) black person. Cynthia McKinney.

She is real. Barack is not.

Anything else is simply falling for the bullshit game.

I honor T for his vote and ability to see beyond the bullshit.

Beautifully.Conjured.Up said...

Torrance, you should know me by now...I'm never the one to think I'm such...maybe others think that, but I don't...sorry, I'm human so I fall short of that mentality.


It's my personal thoughts, and I'm sticking to them :)

@buelaham: You're very much mistaken (LOL), and if you wish, you may email me and we could further discuss this, for I love a great debate.

BuelahMan said...

I wrong about what?

It appears that you want people to vote for Barack Obama because he is black.

What did you mean by writing what you wrote if that is not the purpose?

I don't think I'll email.

That would make it too easy to just wipe away the point I made (which still "appears" to be the case).

I know what "debate" means. And, I am very good at it.

Take care.

Torrance Stephens - All-Mi-T said...


lastly explain how i did not fully par-take if i excercised my liberty and freedom to vote?

my granny, uncle and mom taught me they did not fight for a VOTE - they faught for liberty, freedon and equally, i mean i ridicule ALL politicians equally. I think they fake word smiths with K street backing. what did i show otherwise that i do not evince in my writing - i am a free thinker, is that a problem - i want all, not just black folk to be free thinkers. Im about it. show me how i am not, because i dont support Obama, McCain, Mccinney, Barr or Baldwin? u suggest i should vote for Barack O, why? i riddled all these tricks policies and aint gone fasll for the okie doke

Sista GP said...

None of the graphs, polls, or any other "guess" measures can predict the outcome of the election.

All that matters is the mindset of each voter alone in that booth for a few moments of time!

T.C. said...

i'll be at the polls at 6am tomorrow morning! they open at 7 so i already know i will have at least an hour wait but its ancestors who i know fought for this, if nothing else i owe it to them...further more i owe it to myself and my kids kids...

polls...i don't believe NOTHING...this is America and until its annouced we ain't won a dag on thang

Tia's Real Talk said...

Long time no for the know how it is with kids and life! visit my page and leave a voice mail shout out..

Bombchell said...

ok im still confused, I need to go check Merriam Webster for the meaning of albeit, because u did not say u wrote ur name!!!!!

Waiting for Zufan! said...

Torrance, Amigo, your vote counts too! Obama has a chance to win Georgia. Vote for him! Write your own name on every piece of paper around the house and store and wherever else you want, but in the booth, take your own advice, and give it to our buddy The One. You're a smart guy. Just do it. You don't even need to admit it afterwards. :)

BuelahMan said...

The One.

What a laugh.

Blog Queen said...

Sad but true...maybe we'll be in for a big surprise and we'll either go to bed late knowing Obama has won...or we'll wake up early and find out Obama has won. Win or goes on

Jay Midnyte said...

it is really true. When it comes down to the most important situations affecting the country such as globalism, FISA, Patriot Act, Economic fascism or socialism (whatever you wanna call it), McCain and Obama are carbon copies of each other.

That's what disappoints me about Obama. Even worse is the financial collapse that will occur/continue durin the next administration.

But at the end of the day, when voting for two bad candidates, the lesser of 2 evils is Obama.

Anonymous said...

At the end of the day, I tell all folks to just vote.

I don't live far from Petersborough, New Hampshire and folks up here in Maine are pretty amped for Obama. However it will all be over soon.

RunningMom said...

For the sake of all of us, I pray that you are calling it wrong RDB.

I will be casting my vote tomorrow come rain, hail, sleet or snow - however, I hear it's supposed to be warm & sunny. Lucky us!

The strong majority of folks I know are voting for Obama, white, black or other - all for Obama.

In it to win it - Obama/Biden '08

Curious said...

Did I just read someone refer to The One? Was that a Matrix reference?

Anyway, I should think that if there is anyone who would be able to figure out all the dirty tricks and all laws and rules that could used for and against him, that would be a constitutional law professor who graduated at the top of his class from Harvard. If I'm wrong, then maybe he isn't The One.

Miriam said...

Torrence -you voted yourself in!? lol


I don't know who would be better. For sure, Obama will be historical and it will have good appearance for BF in the future.

re: it will take 3 administrations to get things right, but shouldn't folks start directing things in the right direction? Its not just three RANDOM administrations, no?

Skoolboi Krush said...

It was good hanging with you and the little lady this weekend. You'll definitely see me more often.

I'm skeptical about the whole electoral college thing. Obama could win the popular vote and still get cheated out of the White House.

Lovebabz said...

For the first time in a long time, people are excited about the possibility of democracy. They are interested in America. They are remembering where we came from, where we are and quite possibly where we might go.

At the end of the day for me, it is about the noble idea of change and a seat at the big table for folks who have never been fully invited into the room.

It is a lot to put on Obama. I am suggesting that we each individually take on this invitation. That we find our place in this democracy to make a difference and to support his administration...wherever we are in our lives and our circumstances.

The way will not be easy...struggle never is. But there is a greater payday ahead. it speaks to and calls out to my children and your children. I am not sure I will live long enough to see race equality, or gender equality, or economic equality. But this is a good place to start.

This is a good place to start indeed.

msladydeborah said...

I knew you were going to be "that one" on this subject.

Look T,
I am not angry because you want to help keep it real. There are some folks who think it is already over.

I am so ready for the rest of the nation to vote. Let's do the thing and get it over with!

We have reached the point where all we can do is pray, vote and watch.

There is one point that I am going to raise. No matter what happens tomorrow after the polls are closed, there will be aportion of the national population who will be disappointed over the results. Another portion will be celebrating the end results.

This is grown folks business and I am hoping that our investment of time, money and energy will pay off in the result that we want.

Anonymous said...

being a felon sucks too...
you have to pay taxes but you can't say who represents you.

jonathan perry | said...

being a felon sucks too...
you have to pay taxes but you can't say who represents you.

Anonymous said...

I readily and fully admit that I'm probably as big a geek as you'll find when it comes to voting: I LOVE voting, I LOVE wearing my silly little "I voted" sticker, I LOVE being at the polling place and looking around at my fellow citizens all coming together to exercise their right to vote, but I especially LOVE knowing that whether my choices come to fruition or not, I DID have a choice and say in my government and it DOES matter--if to no one else but me. We live in a country that affords us the incredible opportunity to voice our opinions and cast a ballot for the people and the issues we so choose.

All of that being said, and after the lying and cheating we've seen when it comes to elections, I AM being eternally optimistic that my vote actually WILL get counted, doesn't get stolen in one fashion or another (don't trust those touch-screens, folks!)and makes it to the final outcome...hopefully the outcome I wanted. ;)

I have to admit, Torrance, that I understand the frustrations some feel that you "wasted" your vote since it didn't go toward an actual possible winner, but there are those of us who strongly feel Obama will be the best and only choice for the US, and see a vote for McCain as a wasted vote just as much as we may think yours is--all in the eye of the beholder, I suppose. Bottom line is that it's us and the voting machine for those few precious minutes, and it's our own time to do with as we wish and as our conscience and heart dictate. That's what you did, Torrance, so more power to you. (Although I admit I wish it HAD been a vote for Obama. ;))

Lovebabz did an absolutely INCREDIBLE job of putting into words what I feel (up a few comments from this if you missd it). No one can realistically think change is going to happen overnight, but you must start somewhere and for many of us--MILLIONS of us--we feel that change will begin with the election of Barack Obama. We all have so much to be cynical about, but that gets us nowhere. Bitch and moan, get the frustration out, then get up of your asses and do something about it. And that 'something about it' for many of us is voting for the ticket we feel will at least start the change, if not revolutionize it.

And this VERY POLITICAL gal has to make one last ditch effort for some California propositions (we'll then return your to your regularly scheduled programming ;))...fellow Californians, PLEASE vote YES on 2, NO on 4, and most definitely vote against writing discrimination into our state constitution and vote NO on 8! Thanks :)

PS Torrance, I'm not sure how to tell you this, but, um, uh...I don't think you're going to win. ;)

dejanae said...

i dont trust nothing
but if he wins by a large enough margin
can u say

KELSO'S NUTS said...

JONES: It's a puzzlement, indeed. One which we'll work through live and uncut at 11 in the pm on Thursday.

I agree with you, Jay Midnyte and Beulahman. I agree with everyone else, too.

Except on one issue.

I live OUTSIDE the United States where a person may trade in cash or futures markets on these elections on screens in England, Ireland, Curacao, Costa Rica, Venezuela, Hong Kong and Macau.

There has been steady wave of money for Obama. The bids and asks on these screens are 15,000 Pounds Sterling and higher. I think way more has been wagered on this election that Obama and McCain will have spent.

Do you think anyone putting up a bid of 25,OOO GBP to win 1750 GBP with OBAMA hasn't seen the same news stories you have? Is he oot aware of racism in America? Of the long voting lines in the key Black areas of Florida, Georgia and Tennessee? Of Republicans stealing elections? Of how badly an Obama win is going to tear into the hearts of the White Southern Baptists and the sprinkling of angry White men? Of course, they know it. They know more about this election than they know about their wives!

The OBAMA LANDSLIDE SCENARIO is still odds-on to happen. They just put up a market in the 2012 Presidential election and there's good size for Obama as a 5/2 favorite to win a second term!

As we say "putos no faltan, los que faltan son financistas" [Money talks, bullshit walks].

What happens AFTER the vote tomorrow is a whole other story. Bush could invoke the Executive Continuity Order Of 2007, giving him indefinite dictatorial control until it's overturned by legislative action. Even if by legislative action Congress passes a law prohibiting the EOO07, Bush can veto it and there are not enough votes to override. So, into the court it goes. It will be fast-tracked to the SCOTUS where Bush's dictatorship will win 5-4, no ifs ands or buts. Now, provisional law of the land by Supreme Court precedent.

Paranoia is not wrong. It's just misplaced. My feeling is that the voting will favor Obama and the Democratic Party by a bit more than the polls are showing, but he is an overwhelming favorite to win it. I see no reason why his electors wouldn't vote for him. I see no reason why the House wouldn't confirm the electors' votes.

Bush is still the joker in the deck.

Torrance, if you're taking heat here because you have a contrary viewpoint, you at least have my understanding. I liked your point about Israel and anti-Semitism.

I don't go on Jewish blogs to argue the anti-Zionist Jewish point of view because I lose my shit over the subject.

The creation of the state of Israel from Palestinian land in 1948 was nuts. You don't punish your ethnic cousins for crimes committed by White Christians. Plain and simple.

This was an argument between what you could call "Tel-Aviv" and "Jerusalem." I am -- SORRY TO SAY -- an atheist so I have no connection to an "Israel" in that area. The right way to handle it was by the rules of war in 1945. There was Axis land to be divided up among the US, the UK, and the USSR.

It was proposed that a part of Poland, Germany and Ukraine become Israel. 50 times as much land. All arable. No desert. Plenty of natural resources and it was to be allocated under the Geneva Convention. The US, the UK and the USSR agreed. The head Jews in charge were split between secularists and biblical literalists and Tehodore Herzl and the Torah Thumpers "won." But the result was nothing like a win. The Jewish Free State Of Eastern Europe right now would have been about the 15th wealthiest in the world and wouldn't have needed a dime from the US. Opportunitis lost. I still believe in Israel's right to exist on the same terms the majority of Israelis, Syria, Iran, Lebanon and the Palestinians do: full Palestinian statehood and 1967 borders. That deal was available in 2000. The only live candidate who'd sign it though was Bill Bradley. I catch the same shit from my -- um -- people about holding those views. Except that maybe disqualifies them from being my "people," merely folks who lived in the same part of Spain in 700 AD or the same part of Slavonic territory in 1300 AD.

Sometimes, you have to believe what your research and your moral compass tells you.

So, I support the Torrance T. Stephens write-in vote even in a swing state with a live Democrat to unseat Chambliss! But I have a luxury. I live in a country which has all the things both Kucinich and Paul dream about seeing but never will. So, I can say "screw it, Obama would be a terrible president of Panama but a great president of the USA and Panama and the rest of the world LIKES the idea that America's probably going to give the presidency by a landslide to a Black man. It makes the USA seem less like enemies we're supposed to be ready to fight and more like a country ready to re-join a capitalist world.

But Torrance, I'd have been a little more generous with my letter grades on Obama than the D-minuses you assigned him on the show on tazes, the economy and war.

I'd give him a B- on taxes, a C on the economy and a B-/C+ on war. On international relations, though, I'd give Obama am A-/B+. I'd give him a "gentleman's C" on criminal justice.

"That one", McCain, I give F-grades to across the board. So, there is no choice. For me. And I'm ineligible to vore. And ineligble to donate money to anything political in the US.

At least, Obama's in a position to IMPROVE in all those areas. The old feller's can only get everyone killed.

Besides, no American who holds the views on taxes, fiscal and monetary policy, finance, war and peace, medicine, and criminal justicve that you, Jay Midnyte, Beulahman and I do will ever get elected president. If you like low taxes, mellow laws, strong currency, strong social consciousness, and no military, LEAVE THE USA.

To my way of thinking, Obama's as GOOD a major candidate on those issues as I've seen. I mean nominee, of course.

home decor said...

obama will win this one for sure

Waiting for Zufan! said...

B - "The ONE" was a joke... from McCain calling him "That One."

Wes said...

I voted this morning and I'm hopeful...

Naturally Me! said...

I'm saying this strictly in observation. It's amazing to see so many passionate people today and in these past couple of months. To me, it's been a very religious energy although some would like to call it patriotism. The knocking door to door, telling people that it's "their lives" at stake, this leader is the only one that can lead us to the promised land or what have you...I find it vetty interesting. :-)

Also, I know it's a quiet and unpopular statement that you're making Torrance, but (Naturally me whispers) I hear you. And I hope every one of you has a blessed day!

Anonymous said...

The hypocrisy, in my opinion, is stating that you hope Obama can "pull it out", yet you do nothing to help futher that, i.e., casting a vote for him. Confused....

James Tubman said...

obama got some skeletons too lol

esin said...

Momma and the girls voted at 8:00am, just after the line began to thin. She went back with Grandma, a bit predudiced is Grandma, to be true, yet, she's proclaimed her stand for O.

Momma noted the number of black faces. In the 30 years we've lived in that little community of 50,000, I've never noted A black face at the Fire House (where we vote) on any given election day.

She made a point of mentioning two young men, low rider jeans, dred locks down to here... maybe, each, 20 years old. These are people that have never voted, never would have voted as their take, generally, is 'what the fu.."

Kelso makes for an interesting read, as ever. Others makes valid points. but I will face the lines after I get out of this place.

I picked O by 5..6 pts, some months back... I'm hoping upon hope that this pick will work out. A little faith, hope, affirmation would be so timely right about now ~regards

Torrance Stephens - All-Mi-T said...

Sista GP
well said and so true

well hope it is warm and u got some rest

Tia's Real Talk
thanks sister where have u been anyway and thanks for the award

its no biggie my lil green haired princess

Waiting for Zufan!
LOL Thank u thaty made me smile


Blog Queen
willl be over soon

Jay Midnyte
i can agree with manson being lesser evil than hitler (LOL) just joking
i still see dem vs republican and not the men

yes it will

will do

nope u have a valid point at the top up there too when compared to Mccain

yes i did

Skoolboi Krush
yea man, we should do it again sometime

great point hon

yes it is here where real dialogue occurs I think

Anonymous jonathan perry |
that is a shame

lol i know i will looose and Babz is the truth, and I should belive in a person. On the state level, most times i do select a person, but presidential politics for me has been the same - u only waste a vote when u dont cast one

well said queen poet

thank u all I can say is we will have a liveli discussion this thursday

home decor
im pulling for him even though i aint vote for him

Waiting for Zufan!

how long was the wait

Naturally Me!
well said but I was just being honest - is that so wrong. It wasnt popular to study statistics, but I did, nor to work in prisions, but do

LOL to this hypocrisy, in my opinion, is stating that you hope Obama can "pull it out", yet you do nothing to help futher that, i.e., casting a vote for him. Confused.... grass hopper you must be coming back anonymously instead of using your url. Me im honest and dont hide from my statements as u - I am a libertarian and not a democrat or republican - these men rep the parties although they are individuals. You prove me right - that you are a coward in act and deed, for cowards cannot respect the opinions and acts of others unless that person agrees with them

Guess you never gam,bled either. I have betted on sporting events (games, fights) for the spread to win, even though they were against teams i liked - hard to pass up 21 points sometimes even if it is against your team

James Tubman
yep and so is true for all men

the stories you will have to tell the next generation - odds maker too i see

November 04, 2008 2:07 PM

koffeed said...

I thought i was the only one who thought this way. even SNL . with jokes showed the truth.. MCcain is like Bush.

The Socialite said...

I am more concerned about how we are going to get fucked over after the election win or lose. Race War seems possible! :(

kayellejaye said...

I'm just keeping hope alive.

Torrance Stephens - All-Mi-T said...

nope its sad but such is america

The Socialite
yep may be right but the human beings i belive, regardless of color will squas that shit

gotta be but live free and never be

negro comfortable up in here

RunGirl. said...

This is why we have to walk by faith and not by sight. And respect the power of the tongue. I am rather disapointed at the negativity, so I will say it because I believe it and know that Barack Obama WILL be the 44th president of the United States of America!

A.M. said...

wait!!! No election day post from our Mr. Politics..I came over here for some predictions lol

Anonymous said...

Regardless of whether I disclose my identity the fact still remains that my opinion of you, as it pertains to this post, is that you are a hypocrite. Respect for opinons? How have I shown a lack of respect for your opinion by simply stating my own?

Glen Antoine Palmer said...

From slave ship to cotton field to baseball field...advances have been made, albeit slow ones. Let us hope tonight that we take another step further in the right direction. If McCain wins, there will be some serious scrutiny about the outcome of the election. Forgetting the polls, Johnny Mac was even drawing crowds to come see him. I doubt folks were just at home chilling. I went to an Obama rally in Detroit. The passion I saw from every color in the spectrum was unbelievable. I just have to believe that this is going to happen.

Dusty said...

I did a paper ballot here in the reddest part of Cali. I don't like those optical scanner thingys

I hope and pray Obama will win..I am on pins and needles waiting for the results back east to start pouring in.

Glen Antoine Palmer said...

Looking good thus far my brother.

Beautifully.Conjured.Up said...

No, "grasshopper" isn't me, for if I have anything to say to you, about you, etc., I will say it, and you will know I said it. No one puts fear in my heart but the true Almighty...not pseudo ones (Al-Mi-T).

Anjl Marie said...


KELSO'S NUTS said...

JONES: You know why your such a pain? Because you're ALWAYS right.

If I didn't know you I'd be ecstatic about Obama's huge win. I am happy. I'm happy for the US and I'm happy for Latin America. And I'm happy for him because he was the best candidate.

If I hadn't been reading your shit, though, I wouldn't have let a very troubling piece of news of the early morning bother me the way it is.

What the hell am I supposed to make of the fact that Rahm Emmanuel was telling everyone who'd listen that he was going to be named Obama's chief of staff?

Another Zionist Expansionist Freak to make a matched pair with Lieberman. URGH!

So, everybody gets paid especially the Clintons and the Israeli right. The only guy who doesn't get paid in this deal is the one who made sure Obama had the nomination with no floor vote. The one who forgave Obama for assfucking him his best friend and his brother in the CT Senate race. The one who taught the party how to campaign WITHOUT the DLC.

That guy will be coming around to get paid and Obama had better pay with a smile.

You know who I'm talking about. And you know what he's going to demand. GET OUT OF IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN AND DO IT NOW NOT IN YOUR SECOND TERM.

This is the one person left in the party now that Obama has no sway over, because if this guy doesn't get what he wants, here's the endgame: the Congressional Black Caucus and the Congressional Progressive Caucus will find themselves with bags and bags of DFA money to spend however they want to spend it and Obama will be left with the Clintons, Lieberman, Emmanuel, Netanyahu and lots of war.

The man's name begins with a Howard and ends with a Dean.

Torrance Stephens - All-Mi-T said...

LMBAO, strange you only read & responded to the anon comment and none of the others

Glen Antoine Palmer
thanks folk

Computer chips can be programmed

Soul said...

Raw dawg,

You have every right to put your name on a ballot thus making a choice to not vote anyone with a chance, in.

But the hypocricy here is the fact that you then go on to rally against those black who you presumed were too apathetic to vote.

*You stated that they wouldn't go out to the polls. they did.

*you felt they were too compacent - they weren't.

*you felt they weather would hold them back - it didn't.

*You felt McCain would be the next one. He wasn't

You asked for someone to tell you that you were wrong. I think you should tell yourself that you were wrong.
Whilst you 'hoped' that Obama would pull it out - Others who voted for him 'ensured' that he pulled it out.
Your role in this, was on the sidelines, watching, talking, castigating, judging, pointing fingers, and lambasting people.
You can theorise all you want and at the same time attempt to bury your hypocricy with words.

But your actions on this occasion speak for you.

I'll quote Lauryn Hill at you, because never have I found this phrase to be soo relevant.

Raw Dawg, 'your philosophy is paper thin'.

Well better people than you did more than hope.

Anonymous said...

@ soul

im so in love with your mind

Torrance Stephens - All-Mi-T said...

Blogger Glen Antoine Palmer
Anjl Marie said...

thank u, some dont understand nor can they accept the POV of others if it is not theirs

thank u, paper thin - such is history. My fault if u can respect what i said

yes historically the weather has - but it was a lovely day most places except va and nc

do you have a problem with speculation nand the study or practice of using history to gaguge the future - two words marcus garvey

you make me think you have never been wrong, i wish i was so perfect. and like i siad based ont spread, i hope he can pull it out, albeit hje was not my choice - u sound like u are the self righteous one, i can admit i was wrong - but nothing wrong about asserting your position - i am no the GOYIM

but i can respect and accept what u say - albeit paperthin, and this was not philosophy folk, it was opinion

LOL with ya, u and kelso should date

Anonymous said...


i wasn't laughing with you, doubting thomas.

Torrance Stephens - All-Mi-T said...


I feeel your pain, and i concur. What many, especially black folks did, was base or replace reason and thought with emotion. I can discern this as may as well u can, from some of the comments to this post. As if freedom means free to be and think like others. If there were no tv or radio, folks would have to read all the canidates equally, and if they did, they would see little if any difference between the dems and gop in position and history. Folks think (well emote) that change will be as said, but in all reality, the truism of consistency is they are still democrats and republicans. but they dont feel me though for if they did, they would see how powerful histroy was that formulated the opinion of this post i thought about this election but did not feel it. reason over emotion - especially regarding politics anyday jones

Torrance Stephens - All-Mi-T said...

ok i was wrong - but i would reserve the balance of my time - to see if he will be different than what we have been spoon fed by k street historically - i was hard on mccain and obama equally - not based on disdain but reason. Folks didnt mind if i was hard on mccain but to hold obama to my same mental rigor was blasthmen and hurt they little feelings

esin said...

He he,,, No time for basking in the moment, hey! Pity that... 5..6 pts though, wasn't it ~regards

Soul said...


You are most welcome. And you betcha I respect what you said. I acknowledged that in the very first sentence I typed.

No I do not have a problem with speculation at all. But your speculations were proved wrong.

You asked someone to point it out to you, but I figured you didn't need that. you are a grown man, who should have no problem simply putting your hands up and saying..
'well dang!, I was wrong here'.

However it seemed that you couldn't do that.

I have no problem with history, but I stop at using history as a blind shield which prevents one from being able to see the beauty of growth and reach and strength.

I prefer to learn the errors of history and take active part in evading such errors, I fight my own cynicism all the time, sometimes I'm disappointed in an outcome at other times I am pleasantly surprised.

But where I lose my right to complain about things bitterly, is anytime I had an opportunity to change the status quo, but instead I decided to throw it in the wind.

Please expound on why you have brought Marcus Garvey up here and in what context.

I am wrong on many occasions. There isn't a day that goes by that I don't get things wrong. But I try very hard to learn from them. And I try very hard not to use my own internalised cynicism to tar everyone else. Which is what it seemed like you were doing.

The point here Rawdawg, is you ascribed behaviours to people which have now been proven to be untrue.
You 'hoped' whilst other people 'acted'.

But to add insult to injury, even though you 'hoped' you then went into that booth and did absolutely nothing to build upon your hope.

At this point what is the difference between you and 50cent.

I have not introduced anything here that would make you say that I believed I am perfect, that's a strawman arguement and I believed you were better than that, So , there you go, I was wrong.

Please point out how I could be self righteous in pointing out that you misjudged, mis-characterised a stereotyped a set of people.

It doesn't matter if it were McCain we were talking about and you said the same things. You would have been wrong. wrong. wrong.

No matter how many 'historical' events you want to throw up.
This one didn't play out how you called it.

If I were you, I'd be pleasantly delighted that I got it wrong. Folk put their ballot where their mouth is. Folk moved. They were motivated, they queued for hours some 2hours, some 4hours. Some in 4 inch heels. lol.
They were determined. They said they would, and they made it happen.
That's the beauty here. That on the day, they showed up and did what you predicted they wouldn't do.

Be a big enough person to accept that you know for once, you got it wrong without trying to change the issue and move the goal posts.

And the reason I said it was philosophy was because all of the things you produced as evidence to support your theories.

Rawdawg, right here.. right now.. be a big enough man to be pleased for those people who pleasantly disappointed you by not just talking the talking, but by walking the walk and not only voting for their choice but ensuring that their vote counted by organising themselves and their friends and colleagues and stannding for hours in line to especially ensure it.

And maybe it would be cool if an intellectual like you, could use your words and your keen recollection of history to point out to people across the board that,
in order for history not to repeat itself... people must actively take part in changing it. They must defeat their own cynism and join the fight.
Maybe you can remind them that it's not too late to join in. Even if joining in means holding their chosen result to a higher standard than they do.

Now you can take what I have said negatively, or you can sit back and take it positively.. dude.. it's up to you.

That's all.

jennifer said...

its not only thin but the shit is rice paper thin.

Soul i'm feeling you. do you have a blog we can read?

KELSO'S NUTS said...

@ EMERITUS: Thank you. That's quite a compliment.

@ JONES: I admit to a bias here. You're my friend and we've begun a side project with Lovebabz and we view our world in very much the same way: with a long-view and with as much history, philosophy and science as we can learn. I don't pretend to be completely objective when it comes to your blog.

Now, that I've admitted my bias, I want to support your side of this polemic. I disagreed with part of your premise not because I was blind to US racism and Republican trickery, but because the EVIDENCE was telling me that at least as far as the votes went, Obama could expect a fair count and a very big win. When I disagree, I'll say so, as with that issue.

Just because I was RIGHT about this doesn't mean you were WRONG. Any election is a random variable obeying some distributional form with some parameters and the result which obtained was merely one pull of a ball from a random bag.

Racism, okey-dokes, trickery and right-wing thuggery haven't gone away! Because of certain knowable (the superiority of Obama to McCain was overwhelming) and unknowable conditions they were somewhat more absent than usual THIS TIME. I also believe that the landslide win for Obama will have an mitigating effect on some of the more caustic and maybe even endemic forms of American racism.

In your defense and support, I have to ask anyone who considers you a traitor or a hypocrite one question: there are a million one-sided pro-Obama cheerleading sites, why do you come to Raw Dawg Buffalo and complain to Torrance when you already know that this is not partisan space?

We all have our intra-cultural jokes and that's part of life, but how do your views and your actions somehow cast doubt on your motives, integrity or Blackness? I don't get it. I sure don't consider myself LESS Jewish because I don't believe in God, go to temple, despise Zionism, and view the Middle East as a pan-Semitic region with Arabs as my cousins.

You certainly have never made any secret about any of your views or the scholarship and belief in the Socratic method which led you to them. Where's the hypocrisy? I don't see it. Where's your disbelief in a democratic republican self-governing capitalist system? I don't see that.

I take a slightly more generous view of Barack Obama than you do. Maybe "hopeful" is a better word than "generous". But I have grave doubts, too, and not because I think he's a bad man. I think everybody's on a moral continuum and he's on the "good side" of the midpoint.

But there are a few basic guidelines I have about political philosophy all of which have to do with understanding politics, none of which show a loyalty to any party, side, ideology or specific issue. I do, however, have VERY strong views on all of those things. The views derive from my basic premises.

* Question and test everything you're told

* Know that no self-governing system is perfect--no candidate, no party, no ideology

* Never expect to get everything you want from a candidate or from a democracy; the least worst is sometimes the right choice; a point of principle is sometimes the right choice

* One vote is worth the whole world in one sense, and pretty fuckin little in another sense

* Voting is necessary but not sufficient...ORGANIZING is more powerful

* The USA does not really have two parties. It has two broad coalitions which argue about where to place the breakpoint in the process of each invidudual advancing his or her own career. One part of one of those coalitions is a proudly-racist and Theocratic Authoritarian PLURALITY and makes that coalition easier to hold together and thus gives them more power in placing the breakpoint

That approach to understanding politics is what brought me here in the first place and keeps me here. You've done a tremendous job of informing and summarizing but also in specifically naming the seminal texts, thinkers, historians, novelists and artists who've shaped your worldview such that anyone who visits can DO THEIR OWN RESEARCH on your views and on the world at large.

You've done nothing hypocritical or anti-democratic or have in any way impeded the progress of any race, class, gender, ethnicity, creed, sexual self-identity or self-identity group at all. Least of all your own "self-identit(ies)".

Quite the contrary. You've been pro-(small "d") democratic all the way.

Torrance Stephens - All-Mi-T said...

im attempting to be a scholar so i take nothing negatively
read all my post and subject matter b4 u judge

u need to read as well, coulnd even tell me the temperature at which rice papre is made jones
brain cell against braince cell would smach u and your folk and u bwould tske cobder under me but im humble and dont hate

small d lol and u know the serfs dont even know

im a librtarian

Curious said...

"* Question and test everything you're told" Is this called Kelso's 1st principle? If so, then I'm for it.

I don't remember the post or posts where Torrance has frequently said that where we go along with whatever the party line is without thinking for ourselves, it is a detriment to ourselves. But it's something that I think we should all strive to fight against. How else will we ever truly know that our beliefs are true and not just the rantings of others who don't really hold our best interests at heart.

I will often disagree with what is being said here and elsewhere, but I try to "test" what is being said and "question" my own core beliefs and hopefully come up with an answer that I can live with and learn from.

Torrance Stephens - All-Mi-T said...

ps: my choice was ME

Torrance Stephens - All-Mi-T said...

I respect that and expect that from thinkers
nothing wrong with emotoners but that aint me i think 1st - my fault why is that bad

Soul said...

I know your choice was you.

I just don't understand why or how you could rail against people the way you did.. and in all honesty not be humble enough to state that you got it wrong.

And just to re-itrate: This is not about Obama, it is about the way you critiqued people presuming u knew them better than you did. And you were wrong.

I asked you to kindly expound on why you have brought Marcus Garvey into this, even if you can just point me to a few of your posts on said subject that would be cool and I can read and try to understand you a bit more.

At this point I will respectively just let it go.. cos it seems that wwe are talking about completely different things.

Soul said...

@kelso.. the hypocrite bit was not because he didn't vote for Obama but becasue of the attack on those he presumed wanted to vote for obama but didn't.

He hoped. they went beyond hope and acted.
I wish people would stop for once and actually read what people are saying instead of just presuming that people are doing things for a reason.

It's pretty much laid out in black and white, just becasue someone supports obama it doesn';t mean that they are unthinking gullible cretins who have completely given in to emotion and cannot think or rationalise on the issues.
We all don't support Obama across the board on issues.. for crying out loud, stop being so darn patronising. you are not the only with a brain. you are not the only one capable of rational thought

Soul said...

I used to blog.. don't anymore. It was more a personal blog anyway.. nothing as 'meaty' as what rawdawg has here

jennifer said...

@buffalo, i don't understand anything you just said, negro worry about using the part of your brain that controls linguistics before you attempt to battle someone... or spell check is your answer. all you know is i'm not complying with you on your subject matter. i could invest time and debate with you but it would be a waste of my time. anyways...BARACK!

@soul, i think what you said was 'meaty' should start again.

Torrance Stephens - All-Mi-T said...

this means a lot to u huh lol str8
again come correct wo emotion or dont come at all, i can see u like it here as well as what u read - or else u wouldnt come back, unless u felt u have to prove something - i dont just write what i think (wish i could say feel)

nothing wrong with being negro comfortable up in here

u funny i like that jones

Torrance Stephens - All-Mi-T said...

soul & Jennifer
brb gotta cook dinner for my kids, what yawl cook for yawl kids tonight

KELSO'S NUTS said...

@ CURIOUS: Thanks, but I'm not so presumptuous as to assign my various approaches numbers!

@ SOUL: I wrote that Torrance was fair minded. I didn't write that this site was afternoon-tea-with-the-royal-family. He makes no effort to hide what does here. It's a virtual pub-debate. Whatever he writes, you write, I write or anyone writes here are full of rhetorical flourishes to make a point or to probe and test someone else's point of view. It's intended to be lively not solemn.

You've accused me of being patronizing or assuming I'm the only intellectual here. That's a familiar pub-debate move meant to pre-empt or weaken my response out of some sense of shame and get defensive or aplogetic. Not a bad effort on your part, but all it is is a basic tool in the pub-debater's toolkit. Doesn't work with me.

So, in by most patronizing and arrogant style, I will turn your complaint about Torrance around and put it to you this way: Do you REALLY think that Torrance believes ALL Obama supporters are mindless followers? Or that he believes a huge number are too out of it to bother?

Why didn't it cross your mind that those might have been forensic finesses to stimulate debate and perhaps INFLUENCE someone to vote or to INFLUENCE a registered voter to make a last double-check of the issue and positions of all the candidates?

I haven't the faintest idea what his reasons exactly were for writing what he did but I know the man well enough to know that there's a purpose in everything he writes. He's got a gentlemanly side and an aggressive side just like everybody else. He chose to aggress on this point for reasons.

That we're having this side argument is a testament to his choice of flourish on that topic.

Torrance Stephens - All-Mi-T said...

they (soul and jennifer - who i think same person) aint thinking they emoting. lol personal interest over pedagogy is the dialect of the srf and slave. they feel a certain way - they dont think - for thinkers have no interest to protect and can take opinion for what it is

Sista GP said...

Can't we all just get along?

I expect tomorrow's topics will be quite interesting. I should take a nap before the show, but I don't want to miss the first 45 minutes, lol

KELSO'S NUTS said...


There are too many great topics to discuss.

** The meaning of the presidential election result beyond the laurel leaves:

** What's the cabinet going to look like?

** Whom do you like for the 2 likely SCOTUS vacancies?

** How will Obama REALLY decide on the tough calls he'll have to make like his first budget?

** Did the huge EV number come at too great a cost?

** What's the meaning of Rahm Emmanuel?

** What's the meaning of this goofy accord with Nancy Pelosi that the results are NOT a mandate for change?

** What's to be made of the House and Senate results?

** What's to be made of the sweeping rejection of same sex marriage?

** Tell us your economic philosophy, Mr President

** Has the dollar run and commodity slide set up the worst possible situation for President Obama -- a new oil crisis, stagflation and widespread poverty?

** How long are the "idea" people -- Paul, McKinney, Dean, Flake, Kucinich, Weld, Krugman, Lee, Jackson-Lee, Feingold, Sanders, Dan Rather/Mark Cuban, Fallon, etc. -- just supposed to shut up?

If we deal with three of those questions over two hours we'll have done a great job.

We want lots of calls and Lovebabz is brilliant at handling them and neither of us want to talk talk talk. There's no censorship but no matter how anyone makes their points or asks their questions, I hope they will be on POLICY, POLITICS, PHILOSOPHY and CULTURE and not about hurt feelings on the blog.

I'm writing for me now not for Torrance or Babz but if anyone disagrees with me they can call in and call me a "cocksucker" if they want so long as that's an introduction to an argument on ISSUES grounds. And if they can stand hearing some blue valentines from me in return!

I'm going to speak my mind and I'm going to do it how I like. I've done BBC radio before. Raw Dawg Buffalo Radio is rather different.

Soul said...

Actually Rawdawg...

I'm not jennifer. Although like her I think you are not making too much sense. (ps jennifer, email me if u like nubiansoul [at] you really should start a blog.. I'll read it)

rawdawg how long are you going to accuse people who are not willing to over look your hypocricy of being the same person.

If your defence is that I am 'emoting' then it is an extremely poor one.
So far you have not been able to offer any defence of your words, of your lethargy and of your misjudgement.

Of course you never will. You hide behind 'I am a thinker', well of course you are! (in your own mind)
Others do.. you think.
No action, no movement, just stringing a bunch of words.

With all your 'thinking' credentials it's sad to say, but you sound like a fool.
A hilarious one but a fool none the less.

I can re-iterate about hte fact that I do not care that you particularly voted yourself in.

The issue is about those people whom you misjudged and you do not have the dignity or humility to just! they shocked me.
Yawl, were not playing. wow.

P.S. I don't blog anymore it doesn't mean that I don't comment.

I'll give you this rawdawg you are hilarious.

It will serve you well to examine what you have written, especially the part in bolded part below.

rawdawg wrote:
aint thinking they emoting. lol personal interest over pedagogy is the dialect of the srf and slave. they feel a certain way - they dont think - for thinkers have no interest to protect and can take opinion for what it is

Soul said...

you wrote:
Do you REALLY think that Torrance believes ALL Obama supporters are mindless followers? Or that he believes a huge number are too out of it to bother?

My answer Yes.

But again my initial response would have been the same if he had been talking about McCain.
He got it wrong. dead as wrong..

What you are effectively saying here, is that rawdawg is making statements just to stir debate, which is in direct contrast to what he is saying which is..
'he is a 'thinker' and he has thought through his words in order to say something which he believes in and delivers as his opinion.

So Kelso, which one is it. I fI got it wrong, kindly explain it to me?.

All of this ignores the fact that he asked in his original post, for someone to point out if he was wrong.
When this was done, he turned it around and said oh.. so you are perfect? I wish I was never wrong like you blah, blah..
Is that what self appointed thinkers do?
Come on maaaan.... this isn't rocket science here.

you also wrote Why didn't it cross your mind that those might have been forensic finesses to stimulate debate and perhaps INFLUENCE someone to vote or to INFLUENCE a registered voter to make a last double-check of the issue and positions of all the candidates?

Of course it did cross my mind. (the whole 'tough love campaign'. We are beyond that, it doesn't work. most t'thinkers' acknowledge this. Besides, what crossed it out is the fact that rawdawg has said that he believes what he wrote to be true. any opposition to that he has declared to be because the person is emotional or an obama supporter.. that's not the sign of someone who was storring debate.
Someone stirring debate would have admitted they were pleaseantly wrong.

Whilst you may know rawdawg and point out his different sides, I'm more interested in his actions and letting them speak.

(similar to how I'm more interested in addressing the immediate action of a person who says racists things, at that particular ooint i time, without having to address the people around him/her who come up and say...# ohh I know this person, he is not a racist.. you are just being sensitive.. why didn't you see his words as a challenge).

Sorry kelso, I just don't buy it.
This is not necessarily about just Obama. as I have stated time and time again. I would have said the same thing if we were talking about MCCain.
It's about rawdawgs low expectation, misjudgement and mischaracterisation, and him hiding behind the self appointed 'thinker' wall.

But you seem to be implying that all his thinking is just rhetoric. will he agree with you?

Keli said...

the thing is...the red rum states are usually going to the gop candidate no matter who is the opposing man or woman...not matter the color the skin, it's all about party allegiance...they are ultra conservative just for the sake of keeping things they way they feel they should be...

I live in a progressive city within a conservative's like Austin TX is it's on little world sometimes when you compare it to the rest of the state, but Houston and Dallas have a pretty liberal following as well amongst blacks...which is the case in most conservative states...

I too have not been caught up in the emotion...although proud, my question is Now what? History has been made, but that day is now just that...history? What does this truly mean for our future?
Do we want the first black president's legacy to go beyond being the first black president? or is that enough?

I pray that he's ready, and that he will and can do all that he said he will do...but that is highly unlikely...his administration has been written by ol' Dubya...and he can't create healthcare for everyone, create jobs by allocating more gov't contracts, while cutting just won't work.

I am a social liberal yet I am conservative when it comes to economics...and that raising the taxes for the upper middle class is ridiculous to me...$250k seems like a lot, until your taxed to high heaven on it...

no I am not at that number, but dang, you get two people that make $125k they get married, that there you go...why punish those who are successful? This is a democratic philosophy that has always bugged me...

Uncle Sam bent me over on my last bonus check...and you know what...I don't see President elect Obama keeping anymore of that money in my pocket.

I have people looking at me like I'm broke on the inside...because No, I did not cry...I was asleep when the results came in...I was not over the moon at work yesterday, it was business as usual for me.

KELSO'S NUTS said...


I put it to him directly on the show last week: "I've got a fair amount of money on Obama laying $1.25/1 and $1.69/1; I think I'm lock-city in this, why should I be worried?"

You know exactly what he said if you heard the show. I'll boil it down. He said not to worry but this is America after all and anything that can go wrong for a black person is likelier to than I'd imagine. I conceded his point because then the market price was Obama -$7.50/1 when by the math the right price was about -$30.00/1. There's a fortune in these markets world-wide. Probably more than Obama and McCain spent on the campaign if you count all the private BMs in Hong Kong and Macau.

Everybody making 100,000 Pound plays on this thing is into account American racism. Money doesn't have an ideology. Money only speaks for money.

An election is always a random variable or series of random variable and until the result is known, no one is 100% wrong or 100% right. It's the Schrodinger's Cat thing in which the cat in the box is always 50% dead and 50% alive because there's a 50% the scientist will open the box, releasing the stream of radiation, killing the cat. The cat's still alive but the scientist hasn't gone away.

So, to say someone is "right" or "wrong" in some kind of normative sense is silly when it's just one draw from a random bag.

He gave evidence of his thought processes on the blog.

I disagree with you about his feelings towards Obama supporters. Ask him, though. I could be wrong. I could be right.

I know that Obama's views do not match up with Torrance's. I know why they don't. Torrance is a libertarian and Obama is a center-right Democrat. They have different outlooks on a lot of things. Torrance is much more of a fiscal and monetary conservative than Obama is. Torrance is also far more of a civil libertarian and opponent of war than Obama is. Personal freedom is Torrance's ideological touchstone and Obama does not come from that philosophical position at all. He comes from very much at top-down, hierarchical, social control point of view. Obama leans strongly toward the institution. Torrance leans strongly to the individual.

Torrance, though, like any sane person PREFERRED Obama to McCain! He's never said otherwise. He's gotten irritated with Obama's views or lack thereof. He's wanted to stimulate discussion here on that stuff to see if someone else maybe was seeing weakness in Obama's civil rights and civil liberties stances.

I'm maybe a bit more of a classical interventionist than Torrance is but I have a strong tendency toward the libertarian philosophy myself, so perhaps I understand the concepts in a different way than you do.

I'm not saying I'm smarter than you are. I'm probably dumber. But these issues are very important to me so I've read quite a bit of anarchist, libertarian, free-market, liberal, utilitarian, majoritarian, and Marxist texts to figure out what I like and dislike about each and where I'm at.

Torrance has read twice as much easily as I have. So, if that's not being a scholar and thinker I don't know what is.

His writing is not about "tough-love". He's not trying to save the world. He's offering his opinions and his scholarship and letting the discussion flow from there.

He's offered up the challenge. If you think he's a crap scholar or thinker, he said he'll match anyone at anytime. Design some competition you feel is probative and offer it to him if this is important to you. He'll go for it if it's interesting to him. He'll back his opinions with money if you like. I'd certainly get in on the action there!

You're not any kind of a favorite to beat him. Believe me. I'd need an enormous price to back you in a challenge of wits against him because I know the books he's read and the facility with which he recalls passages to make his points.

I think he does a great job of bringing up stimulating topics here and attracting a very intellectual crowd. Even if something he wrote came more from irritability than from the milk of human kindness, he's still a man who chooses his words carefully and always has a plan.

When I speak to him today, I'll ask him what his intentions were and I'll let you know or he will!

I'm biased. He's my friend. I'm reasonably sure, however, that my read on his cognitive and writing skills is dead on. I trust my own, as well. If you want to put the challenge to me, I'll go for it, too, if it's worth my time. You're in with a slightly better chance against me than against him but I don't think it would be a good idea. I've been in tons of these kinds of situations before and if you're not ready to play you can really go for a lot of money or your house or car or something.

I'm an applied scholar. I'm good at that. I'd say I'm a pretty weak theoretical scholar.

But in my business it's mostly men and women like me and there are a lot of slow boring times and social events. We money movers may have some education but we're kind of a boneheaded group. We'll do crazy shit like bet $20,000 on who can find more Christ imagery in 100 random pages of Faulkner. You don't really learn how to save the world or be nice in that environment. You learn how to compete and how to get any advantage you can, how to isolate the weak players, and all that. I'm not so proud of that, but it's my only skill!

The subject is closed.

Torrance Stephens - All-Mi-T said...

no need to take up for me folk. I will say this. I rember when mike Tyson lost to Buster Douglas. I did not expect him to loose based on his undefeated record ( ie presidents 43 w - o blacks) for example but he did. I got thaT WRONG TOO.

Soul likes it here, and like i said, has nver been wrong - im cool w that hope they call in

Torrance Stephens - All-Mi-T said...

now thats foolish - i think all folks follow blindly, and i have nothing to defend - its myopinion maam/sir and u emote vehemently - i know another foolish string of words

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