Sunday, April 20, 2008

joining the rest of the civilized world

These rickety splitting politicians, including Obama, talk about health care as if it is an easy problem to solve. All like I said have put of some big-worded proposals on the table that sound delicious in sound bit form on the surface. Clinton REQUIRES all citizens to have coverage versus Obama’s plan to start with children first. In addition, I have noticed that a thorough review of McCain’s plan (although he use the Mantra of Obama now which is making health insurance more affordable) sounds like he is dealing with a telephone monopoly by suggesting his goal is to foster more competition in an effort to reduce costs and improve the delivery of services. He also wants to provide folks with a refundable $2,500 tax credit as an incentive to buy insurance.

Similar to McCain, Hillary Clinton plan also focuses on lowering costs and improving quality. I find the latter with respect to both McCain and Clinton as being feculent given that America has the best health care in the world. So to me, improving the quality of our health care misses the point.

Although I believe the Obama's plan is the most practical and comprehensive (not hard for a c minus to beat 2 D pluses), he too misses the point on the general issues at hand. As I read his prospectus, he is more concerned about specifics such as mental health, Autism, AIDS and Mercury Pollution. True, he as clinton and McCain want to expand research and place the Insurance companies in check, they still don’t seem to have a veridical or pragmatic approach to health care.

Truth is none of these folks running for president seem to notice the wide range of cost for the same procedures across states and even hospitals in the same states. Using me as an example, which I think is most folks, know who offers the best service in anything and who has the lowest prices. As a consequence, folks tend to go, and are willing to drive to those institutions that have both and the politician’s plans do not address this. Moreover, none even talk or mention the fact that there is a very demanding shortage of Nurses and physicians in America. They also do not deal or address the fact that medicine and health care is being run by business men as opposed to physicians and scientist - foul. Thats like having wall street run by a maid to me.

I know many folks say that health care is a privilege as opposed to a right and accordingly, some folks really believe that only people who can afford health insurance should have it. Such a premise is primitive to me. I mean, what will these folks say 20 years from now when there is a worldwide food shortage? Will they say that only people who can afford food deserve to eat? We are talking about mainly people who are working and still can’t afford health care or the massive deductibles required before the benefits of insurance kick in. Having universal health care will not do anything and may not even help. So big wig politicians, revamp, focus on trying to get more folks insured as opposed to all folks. By doing the previous it is easier to accomplish the latter. Otherwise we will be in the same boat and with respect to health, America will never join the rest of the civilized world.


DCup said...

I cannot, for the life of me, understand why we can't get this right in this country. With all we have, how can we not understand that we all benefit if all of us are properly fed, cared for, housed and educated?

Silly me. So egalitarian. So socialist.

I suppose I'd be more American if I agreed that some should do without the essentials while others (who've no doubt earned it) shit in gold toilets.

Congrats on the publication of your book, BTW!

Urban Thought said...

America has the best health care in the world?

I'm not sure about that. According to most people I know who move here Canada and the UK may have us beat.

It may have to do with the red tape that comes with the health coverage here.

Torrance Stephens bka All-Mi-T said...

dcup - thanks and where can i get one of them gold porcelin gods? lol

urban thought - yep. you must recant tht it starts at th university system, the worlds best come her to learn about medicine, the practice and delivery. even the physicians doing cheaper heart surgery in India were trained where - here. so yese. Canadians get better coverage, but best belive their best physicians were trained up in this camp, give me some sources and i will give u some - str8?

buelahman said...

Sup, Dawg.

The real issue is that Big Money (specifically, Big Health Insurance) owns the congress, and yes, all three of these candidates.

The only real solution is a single payer, not-for-profit healthcare system that eliminates the health insurance middle man totally. No more HMO's.

However, this doesn't mean that the government "runs" anything. It simply becomes the single point of payment.

No insurance cards or being turned away because a doctor isn't listed on an HMO or insurance accredited carrier status.

Countries that employ this have much better coverage, longer life expectancies and a much greater "quality of life".

Kucinich proposed this and it was killed due to Big money.

Also note that our country spends more on stuff that maims and kills others than the rest of the world combined, but cannot spend what it takes to care for its citizens. Hypocritical, to say the least.

They are owned and now they are trying to do anything that will still keep their coffers paid.

sista gp said...

What bothers me the most are the Networks. After an employer changed healthcare plans, we had to give up a long time family physician because he did not belong to it. The out-of-network expenses were too high.

JayBee said...

i haven't done any independent research on what the candidates are proposing, so i'll withhold judgement. are you predicting a food shortage in the not too distant future or was that just fodder to strengthen your argument about the healthcare info?

Aunt Jackie said...

Having both Canadian and European friends I can attest to the fact that our current health care system is for shit. It is indicitive of the fact that our country was built on slave labor, that our country runs on an implied permanent lower class for labor, and health care has been a class divide for us for centuries.

It was argued on another site that people without jobs aren't concerned about health care but I think that's just about as classist as we can get, forgetting that the emergency room serves are the only doctor many people in this country will ever see.

it doesn't matter how many doctors we train, most of them aren't affordable to the masses. Low birth weight is still the number one killer amongst black people, which is to say the absence of health care in our communities for the lower class continues to kill us.

My concern is that all of this grandstanding about health care will come to a hault once in office...the whole lot of em. In reality they don't want to pay for health care for illegals, which in turn has elimated the working poor.

I totally over commented but this shit gets me riled up!

Curious said...

Healthcare I think is a cultural thing. It reflects how we feel about ourselves as well as how we feel about others. Here in the US, many people have a frontiersman-ship mentality. A pull yourself up by your own bootstrap attitude. An every man for himself approach to many things. They say healthcare should be available to everyone if they can afford it, but if they can't well at least they will be able to get the bare minimum until they can. And that I believe is the problem.

We spend up to 16% GDP on healthcare whereas the Japanese spend only 10% and yet their entire population is covered. There is no added penalty or costs to industry thus reducing the prices of their goods and services relative to ours. Their population I believe is healthier and has a longer life span.

Sure Healthcare here is "the best in the world," but it's also the most expensive. If you can afford it then there is no better system. But if you are one of those people who cannot afford it or one of those people who has come to the financial limit that the insurance has placed on your policy, then no matter how good healthcare is, it sucks for you. That is why I believe full universal healthcare is the way out if that morass.

The biggest and most successful program there is in the world other than the defense budget and how people still can buy $400 toilet seats and say the US is safer because of it, is the Social Security program at least for now. It works because we all pay into it and only the needy and the elderly get their share at the end. Universal Healthcare can work if we did the same.

If we all paid into it. If insurance costs were dropped due to frivolous law suits no longer allowed. If medical costs were lowered because duplication of records or procedures were discontinued. If the costs of obtaining a medical degree were reduced, then perhaps as a society we could achieve universal healthcare where people would no longer be afraid to go to the doctor because of illness or the bill.

BTW, if there is a shortage of doctors and nurses here, its only because the costs associated with those people are no longer be accepted by the corporations that pay them. It's actually cheaper to bring in people from overseas and pay them than it is to hire someone living here.

Sorry I am no longer focused here, but this has been an issue that I have been interested in since I started to notice my insurance premiums were going up faster that my annual raises.

I guess you can tell which health plan I'm for.

Oh and those figures I gave earlier are someone's I saw on Charlie Rose, so they may or may not be true but the I think the sentiment is the same.

Anita said...

Thanks for taking the time to flesh out the differences between the three plans!!

And I think Aunt Jackie hit the nail on the proverbial head:
"it doesn't matter how many doctors we train, most of them aren't affordable to the masses."

To that I would add that we have have all the advanced procedures and equipment and drugs "available" in this country, but to whom are they mostly available? The people with high-end coverages, such as people working for the small number of remaining corporations that provide decent health coverage to their employees.

I saw Elizabeth Edwards one day talking about how she felt that Clinton's plan was the most sound. Her point being that once you make a commitment to covering EVERYONE, that is when the cost savings, or the economies of scale can actually kick in for the entire system. The McCain and Obama plans being voluntary for adults (or at least I know Obama's is) cause the system to remain within the "private sector" whereby that quote unquote "competition" does nothing at all to lower the costs for the average person ...

JaaJoe said...

Did you see the Bunk study stating 2/3 of doctors in America want National Health Care. The doctors who did this study also conducted one in 2002 and found that the majority of doctors did not want national health care, the problem with this is that the 2 question surveys drastically differ in there 2nd question. I found this article, 60% of Physicians Surveyed Oppose Switching to a National Health Care Plan, It's worth a read

KELSO'S NUTS said...

T: I think that if you take a look at how the United States handles all of these public/private issues and their externalities, you'll see that they are completely different than the way the issues are handled in every other advanced capitalist democratic republic.

It's not a Democrat or a Republican thing. I believe that Paul and Huckabee had the best tax plan, for example, but to make their plans work would have required something that the US cannot culturally do. EVER. End the wars and end the national security state. Also, you'll notice that Paul and Huckabee's tax plans had something distinct from every other candidate's: they wanted to take the PUNITIVE element out of the tax system.

As weird as it may sound, I think it goes to Aunt Jackie's point about slavery. It goes to the truth about the "Pilgrims". The "Pilgrims" arrived at Salem about three steps ahead of the Crown Court which was not "persecuting" them for their religion but rather enforcing laws against the violation and sometimes murder of women and children as accepted part of their religious practice. The "Pilgrims" coudn't stand all that nutty "liberalism" of the Anglican Church. But you won't read that in any schoolbook.

It's all of a piece. Every element of American public policy carries this same taint of SADISM AND PUNISHMENT from the Ultra-Calvinists in Salem and slavery in the South on down. There can never be a compromise on anything. It seems in any issue of public policy there must be some people taking down huge scores and other people scapegoated and punished.

And always with some religious "moral" element to justify it.

The currency of every other nation is pounding holy crap out of the US dollar, yet somehow they manage to provide health care for all, educate all, house and feed all.

By Republican and Democratic orthodoxy, how could that possibly be? How could these countries possibly keep their currencies strong and their budgets in balance with all of these "giveaways" to the undeserving?

The health care crisis in the USA just like taxes could be worked out with some compromise is all. Just the way collective bargaining happens every day. You can't just go out and fuck the insurance and HMO industries but you can get their trade associations to the table and ask what they'd accept in exchange for phasing out that line of business. And you negotiate from there. Ultimately, it will require some budget cuts from defense and what would happen is that the insurance and HMO lobbyists would work it out with the defense lobbyists.

But that's not the American way. Because that's the capitalist way. And America is not a capitalist country. It's a quasi-fascist country with capitalist features.

The American way is to punish and blame and twas ever thus and twill ever be.

KELSO'S NUTS said...

By the way, I understand that a lot of my last post is EXTREMELY unorthodox and I don't mean to imply that I think I have the last word on it and I don't mean to denigrate anyone's religion.

I do, however, feel very strongly about these things and would welcome any discussion and disagreement with pleasure as long was we stick to the issues.

msladydeborah said...

Yo T,

Why don't you send a copy of your ideas of Obama 08?

Yes, I am serious about this. I agree with your post and I feel that if you have a better idea then you should pass it on.

chocolate_matters said...

You really analyzed this, huh? I think the healthcare in this country sucks. I think a model like the one in Canada is something we should be leaning towards. Just the basics in healthcare should be covered (check up, physical, dental, eye, etc...) As for other care (emergency, necessary surgery, etc...) I am not sure as to how to address that. This still may not work, though. I do think that the bean counters in health care need to be removed because you can't place a price on health. More importantly our healthcare system needs to be revamped to place more importance on preventive care instead of ripping off citizens with these high drug prices that only fatten the corporate wallets at the expense of our good health.
Good post.
I know have a better understanding of where each candidate stands in terms of the healthcare question.

Torrance Stephens bka All-Mi-T said...

Curious – a well written and astute tractate. Reminds me of why we as Americans have lower prowess in math when compared to other nations. I do agree with the frontier-type mentality and will add that we will pay for what we want (see prior post on what is it made of). And defense overhealth u aint never lied, as what u mentioned about longevity . culture true and life style, which again goes back to culture. Well said in summary.

But the defense is not alone, hospitals charge 85 bills per roll of toilet papers in some cases

And u are not sorry, write for other to learn, as I do from u so don’t apologize for being a thinker ok?

Anita – thanks for the drive by and for the record, aunt Jackie is the truth, u need t read her comments on the regular. And u are correct. Add to that distan medicine, 5700 plus hospitals, I tell u the talent and facilities are there, I cant figure it out. And so true, with respect macro economics

Aunt Jackie – I agree completely, the class divide, the very very wealthy and the very very poor are incompatibale like freedom and ignorance. Cost is the bottom line. I can add no more. Except the politicians seem to have abrogated such as a part of their discussions.

Jaybee – do it and let me know what u think, I was childless for a night so went through all three. And yes, Maybe about 10 years – a food shortage , that’s why I have a farm, fod don’t grow in grocery stores

Sista GP – everybody is getting paid but the service, well like a carwash to me.

Buelahman – so K street rears its ugle head agin. And you right, just like Kelso, Jackie, Curios and Anita (ill get to u in a second Kelso). But it will never be not for profit in this country.
Jaajoe – yep, I have, funny u mention it. What I rell of , I mean what stuck out was that cancer physicians made about 300 million on the little work they did, I mean the feds gave them about $130 each time a chemotherapy provider assessed a Medicare patient’s pain, fatigue and nausea.

Kelso – like Jackie, Curious, and Buelehaman. On point. And as I told Curious, this is why I blog I don’t know shit, I just pontificate. And don’t even get me on the Crown Court of England and Wales or the Bow street Magistrates, but u have as usual, given me something else to write about. Agree, I prefered Paul’s plan. But I also know its not a party thing, thus why I desire the return of the Whigs

Torrance Stephens bka All-Mi-T said...

msladydeborah - i dont think the pedantic in him will listen to this memphis n i dougle G a

Choc matter - i am in public health and i am a research scientist. i jst looked at what they have to offer. Bean counters are the problem. And thanks folk

The Jaded NYer said...

To make matters worse- as if not being able to afford health insurance wasn't bad enough- trustees for the Medicare fund are estimating that by 2019 the fund will exhausted...

so not only are retirees losing pensions and lifetime health care benefits earned during their working years, but they won't have Medicare to fall back on, either.

It's all a hot ghetto mess!

PrettyBlack said...

I don't necessarily agree with what you are saying in terms of Obama's plan. He has said in many of the 5000 debates he has had that he knows he won't be able to get all insured immediately but his plan covers more than 4 years in office.

He requires that parents pay for their childs medical insurance and those who are not covered will get subsidies from the government to help them afford insurance.

As for the shortage of Doc's and Nurses, he also has an education plan in place to help kids pay for college. I do believe his plans need a lttle more depth, but he is laying out his plans post haste to show the American people he does have a clue.

Would you give your students an assignment due in 4 weeks and 2 weeks later make them turn it in and give them a grade on the unfinished product?

Torrance Stephens bka All-Mi-T said...

prettyblack - u sound like a fan. Im being objective, about a field i work in. And yes, do it all the time, and u know what the tight students would have covered it before i went over it (as i did oin college) and ben prepared for knowledge sake. They would have still gotten an A. I remember when I got my syllabus, i didnt wait for the teacher to study it before he presented - thats how u fail. Yep, the smar students would turn in a completed project and get at least a B or better

NYER - yep, a holy ghetto mess , i can use that one day and ill give u credit

Tamra said...

Yeah, the cart is way before the horse on this one. They need to acknowledge and fix the out of control BUSINESS that is the health care industry before they talk about "requiring" anything.

I guess we'll be waiting on that one for a while longer...


You're the only other blogger I read regularly who has acknowledged the impending food shortage. Generally speaking, it amazes me that people are so clueless about it... Hell, don't just stop at food shortage--I wonder how many people besides Georgians know how serious a water shortage is--and that one may be in their future...I'll actually be blogging in more detail about both (and the desalination issue) over the next couple of week--overwhelming topics. Sigh...

Tamra said...

Oh, to clarify about the water shortage--I meant with regards to how many Americans are aware of the water shortage... We usually tend to be either reactionary or totally oblivious, which is why I singled us out.

PrettyBlack said...

I'm just giving my 2 cents, yes it may be a little biased, but a fan? Naaah. I just feel we shouldn't rush to judge anyone on the outset. No I don't work in the field...Don't know what I like and want as an American. I know healthcare is in the toilet, I believe it is the biggest thing
2nd to the war that is killing our economy, the emergency rooms are being swamped, people can't pay their bills, the hospitals are being burdebed and writing it off and the taxpayers are footing the bill.

No I don't know it all but I know an intelligent and able muthafucka when I see one. As I said before, a fan? miss me, but what I am is a person who see's an individual who can get us out of this bullshit.

Obama didn't invent or re-invent hope, I've always been an optimist, and I'm optimistic that this brother will at least try. So there it is there.

Tera said...

I was just thinking the other day (aside from the healthcare issue) why does shit in the health and medical world have to cost so much anyways?! I mean I have what I consider to be "good" insurance and still have to pay $40 per script from some of mine and my children's meds...yes, that's just the co-pay!!!

Anyways, sorry for venting, but I agree with should definitely get your post/ideas out there!

Pimpin' Pens said...

Have to agree with your opinion on universal health care, that shit is a waste of breath and mont blanc ink for these politicians. On a tangent, what the fuck is up with these candidates anyway? Out of all the bright, intelligent, sharp motherfuckers we have in this country, we have these 3 bozos to choose from to be our leader.

-Los Diablo for p-pens familia

KELSO'S NUTS said...

T: Anita and I go way back. It's a very good thing she's coming by here. She definitely has one of the sharpest macroeconomic and financial opinions of anyone I know.

And she's never weighed down by any orthodoxy. Her criteria on so much are: is it just? is it efficient? will it work? is it original? is it elegant? is it beautiful? what don't I know?

I try to keep the tenets of Anita-ism in mind on most topics. Most of the time, I fail.

A Go Bytch said...

yeah, Health Care is ridicoulous. My suggestion is crack down on the FDA (Food and Drug Administration for those who had a long weekend). If they would better regualate the goods we are eating and the chemicals used to processs these goods perhaps we wouldn't need so much healthcare! Normally your doctor can't tell you anymore about your sickness than googling the shyt!

CapCity said...

jus' came thru to holla at a bruthah!

The best health plan to ME: SELF-CARE: eat well, exercise, etc. cuz none of dese political mfrkahs can really help us!

Jackie Edwards said...

I am not an American so I have no say in the upcoming votes. However, I do appreciate the fact that you took the time to fully explain the differences in the policies and plans that the candidates have in their health care reform agendas.

I TRULY do not understand how come the US has not been able to come up with a solution after so many years of inadequate health care. There are so many other countries who DO get it right. Why is their blueprint not good enough?

Torrance Stephens bka All-Mi-T said...

Jackie Edwards - thank u and i do not understand eiatyher and sometimes i wish i didnt know how to read

Cap - u bdont chk on your folk no more u book hustler, hit me sometimes and lets talk about the signings and how the book u still got numb? or ill get yours from rich or D

a go bytch - shhhhuuu google might make loot off of your suggestion

kelso - lol folk like us fail at everything because folks have such high standards of us, even higer than ourselves
pimpin pens - statue of limitations lol

Tera - u can vent hon, ill rub your head while u do it and like i said, they wouldnt listen to folk herePretty black - biased , ok, sound like Voltair ms optimist "candide"
Tamra - thats why i have a well and 11 acres, fgolks will see in a while, and then the shoes, purses and cars will look like fools gold - which they are

Dee said...

Seriously. If the United States wouldn't go around all drug-induced paranoid and insist that a gross overcompensation in our national defense will make us safe from terrorists, because it's the domestic ones of Big Business and Big Healthcare that continue to loot and plunder us long before a militant cell will.

I had healthcare coverage when my dad was still in the Army. After he left the service and my parents split, we have had to make do on our own. Thank goodness I'm relatively healthy. I have my health issues, but as long as I'm not bedridden, I will work through a cold. I get my bumps and bruises, and I have had a few close calls. Only thing got me going is luck -- and maybe some caution -- because I can't afford not to be safe.

THAT is the state of the medical system in this country: to know that you are but one real good injury away from having whatever savings or money you have totally tanked. And yet, everyone's following a Hipprocratic Oath.

Fuck 'em. I say throw all those bitches off the table because they have had PLENTY of years of making money and overcharging. You want some sacrifice? Drop down to six figures and focus on keeping people well.

Don said...

I don't know anything concerning either health care plan. I figure I'd just cross that bridge if and when reached. Personally I think America should raise taxes and do whatever it takes to make ALL health care easily affordable. They have enough money. And people need prompt and cheap health care, like yesterday.

shelia said...

health care is a privilege as opposed to a right

It shouldn't be a privilege but something everyone is entitled to no matter what their economic status.

The premiums on health insurance is ridiculous. I can still remember when co-payments were $5 or $10 now even with insurance your co-pay could be $20 to $40. I don't get me started on HMO verses a PPO.

Lovebabz said...

There has to be political will to make the necessary changes. There is no moral imperative as of yet around this issue. As long as pharmeceutical companies can write health care legislation to their benefit, America will have health care that does not serve the people. THERE IS NO MORAL IMPERATIVE for such. What does that mean? It means that no one cares enough to rally folks around this issue. Who the fuck cares about the poor in America? The majority of poor folks don't vote--rendering them invisible and are often seen as a burden on the system anyway. As long as that perception holds nothing will be done. Now if say, white middle class (middle class is loosely defined and therefore could mean any number of households in any geographic location--for example what is middle class in Connecticut would be affluent in say Tennesee) soccer moms (in Connecticut, CA, NY and other states that have highest median incomes) started complaining about health care and the lack thereof then you would see ground swell in advocating something be done. This isn't solely a race issue, it more deeply rooted in class. It just so happens that we (African American and Latinos) are disportionately represented in the lower classes, ie at the bottom of the ecomomic ladder.
I commend you for raising the issue and doing your part to get folks to think about what this means to each and every one of us.

I am reminded of the mis-speak of then President Ronald Reagon, who once said that he reads the Wall Street Journal everyday and sees plenty of jobs! That is the mindset with health care. No one is paying attention to folks going to the emergency as their first introduction to primary care. I was a science major in college with hopes of becoming a medical Dr. But politics was always my love...but I digress.


Divine Blackness said...

I'm just strollin' through and readin'.

Have you seen Sicko?
I mean, really....

That Girl Tam said...

I honestly don't believe that Universal Healthcare can actually happen until they are able to fully address ALL the issues surrounding coverage, who can get it and how it's going to be paid for.

Right now they're too busy pointing fingers and playing "he said, she said".

I'm still waiting for someone to fully address how all the money I've earned for Social Security is going to be still available to me when I reach retirement age. I'm torn between supporting the elderly that really need it (with my tax dollars) and having money available when I really need it.

Also...the shortage in physicians and nurses is really caused by all the cutbacks in healthcare - in my opinion. Nobody wants to go into these fields and end up under paid or so many other people.

enigma4ever said...

really good nice to stumble over here and see that you too think it is a RIGHT ( or should be) not a "luxory"...and yes, Obama's is not good enough- but it is better than others....( McShame;s ???? we may as well get cemetary plots?)....congrates on your book...( I can buy any books til the campaign is over- the primaries....but THEN...I will be buying up a storm....yours is on my are a wonderful writer...)
(btw I the naggy nurse also have a HELLThcare post up too..)

Miss Mika said...

I'm sorry I have to do this to you...

Wait, no I'm not!

Tag! You're it!

Blu Jewel said...

I'm often pissed off when children from other countries are brought here for medical treatment, but we can't/won't take care of the sick children here. No, I'm not saying foreign children don't deserve to be cared for, but I just can't understand why we fail to take care of our own FIRST.

I pay for the best health benefits I can afford and seek the best healthcare providers in my network and find that the doctors are over worked and undercompensated because as you said, the health care system is being run by businessmen not physicians.

It's a maddening experience to know that adequacey for the basics just isn't available as it should be.


ShAé - ShAé said...

I'm all for health care because we need it at some point or another. But for me, it's about HOW people are able to get it. For example, they've mandated it in Massachusetts, but did anybody think of how that affects working poor people in MA? If you're unemployed you can get Mass Health (state funded health care), and if you're employed you can get it through your job... but for people who work and have low wages that required health care is eating away their pay. That's what I'd like to hear about rather than if Obama plays ball or if Clinton's husband called him a boy. Let's get to the nitty gritty. And yes, what the hell are they going to do about the immunization shots that are suspected to have cause this outbreak of Autism? I'd never even heard of it as a child but now it's touching so many families and the government doesn't even want to talk about immunization shots. So many parents say their children were "fine" until their shots about 12 months to 18 months they notice a drastic change AFTER the shots their kids are no longer the same. I could go on & on about this but I'm trying to have a good day as ordered by RDB. ;-)

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