Thursday, July 10, 2008

We the corporation

Jones, originally I was gone post one of two essays I found on my jump drive today. The first is called Scorn of Lady Macbeth (about women using kids as pawns in relationship) and the second is called Work hard and don’t make excuses (about demise of work ethic in youngins today). Maybe next week, but I had to detour for a few based of an astute comment left on the prior post by my folk Curious. His comment reads as follows:

"I had to look up wt the Glass Steagall Act was and what effects it may or may not have had in the banking industry. As a Liberterian I would have thought that you would have approved of repeal of the Act. Doesn't this mean that there is less government interference and therefore more chance to make money by the industry and less chance of losing money on waste and regulation?"

Yes it is true; I am a Libertarian, a civil libertarian. But it is also true that I do feel as I do about the repealing of the Glass-Stegall Act. How can this be since I am against government intervention and protecting me from myself? It is simple. When I read the constitution of these United States of America, especially the Preamble, which learned as a child looking at Schoolhouse Rock on Saturdays in between cartoons, the first thing that I recall is the phrase WE THE PEOPLE.

This is very important to me for it “ordains and establishes” a foundation for my civil liberties as an individual as well as a self professed civil libertarian. Especially as implied via the 14th amendment for I consider myself a sovereign citizen. I do not believe nor do I accept that institutions, groups and last but not least – corporations, are ordained as such under the constitution. Consequently I do not equate the rights of corporations as that of or equal to those of individual citizens, I just don’t and folk don’t get down like that with respect to dialectical ruminations of the constitutional sort. For again, in the preamble to the constitution, it reads WE THE PEOPLE and not WE THE CORPORATION. Curious, hope that answers your query. Great comment as usual.

Addendum: The song today is Citizen Sovereign – corner of my eye (1996) by savagebeastmonsta-sameblakmuthafucas - us. My interpretation and application of what the 14th amendment is to me if yawl aint ever read it. For as I have written before, Ignorance and freedom is incompatible. Enjoy

PS – Buy Fast and Gamin’ Today.

CORPERATION, 14th amendment, Libertarian, liberty, Glass-Stegall Act, constitution, savagebeastmonsta-sameblakmuthafucas, Preamble, Schoolhouse Rock


Stephen Bess said...

Yes, I'm from the Schoolhouse Rock school of politics as well. It was my Saturday morning briefing on the Constitution of United States as I ate my bowl of Captain Crunchberries.

Lovebabz said...

Americans should know that the
14th Amendment was created to nullify the holding of the United States Supreme Court in Dred Scott v. Sandford, 19 How. 404 (1856).

Oddly, while the nullification of the Dred Scott decision is universally acknowledged as the reason the 14th Amendment was thought necessary, some ill-informed and/or illogical expositors attempt to use the Dred case as their rationale to turn the true meaning of the Amendment on its head. Fortunately, the words of Chief Justice Taney (author of the Dred decision) are unmistakably clear.

Truth: The phrase "Citizen of the United States", as used in the opening of the U.S. Constitution, does not have the same meaning as the term "citizen of the United States", as used in the 14th Amendment.

In other words, neither you, nor I, nor the Chief Justice of the US Supreme Court can indulge in revisionist history in order to pretend that the words now mean something new and different than they did the day the author wrote them. Whether we like it or not, those words mean (forever) only the white citizens of the 13 independent states (and all states admitted to the Union thereafter).

That is not a racist statement; that is a historical legal reality. Sometimes a historical legal reality may bruise our modern conscience and sensibilities, but the fact that we may feel bruised and angry does not change what the men who wrote the document meant when they wrote the words.

Because the phrase "Citizen of the United States", as used in the opening of the US Constitution, has a fixed meaning for all time, it obviously can never be used to mean people of African decent brought here for the purpose of slavery, or their posterity; so says the US Supreme Court.

Once again, the problem was not that white citizens were without "due process" as they traveled from state to state, or that the federal government was not Constitutionally authorized to rectify state abridgements of due process rights. It was that the recently freed black slaves were not considered citizens - and therefore the protections of the privileges and immunities clause and due process did not apply to them.

As you can clearly see, white citizens did not need the 14th Amendment. Their protections were quite secure. The 14th Amendment was a grant of a special form of citizenship to the recently freed slaves (and their posterity), and also contained the framework of rights and protections that would be a part of this new type of citizenship.

I couldn't edit this down because each piece is equally important to the other. You have to look at the intent of the 14th amendment, then the interpretations of the ammendment and does the preceeding amendments say more and do more like the 4th and 5th amendments.

Waiting for Zufan! said...

I'm not up to much deep thinking today. Just want to say that when I click on your site now, Zufan dances to the music. She's been bouncing up and down and waving her arms and laughing. I gotta get that kid some more music.

OG, The Original Glamazon said...

Yes, I can't believe they don't plat SHR anymore or anything of value on Sat mornings. That usta be my shyt back in the day Sat morning cartoons. I usta watch the cartoon preview on TV at the end of summer. MAN!!! You took me back for a minute!

Anyway actually that does clear up a few questions I had, right after reading you were a libertarian I was like yeah why is he. *lol*

I'm an independent, so you know I have voted for my fair share of Libby candidates. No one owns my vote. Thanks for clarifying.


Sheliza said...

this has nothing to do with your post...I finally hear the "funk"! My speakers were turned up this time! Very coool!!

BuelahMan said...


How far we have fallen from the formation of a more perfect union, the establishment of justice or insuring domestic tranquility.

Our 'common' defense is now protecting the interests of Big Money by providing an overwhelmingly powerful Military that scares the fuck out of the rest of the world (much like Rome did 2,000 years ago).

Our general welfare has been demonized by Corporate interests... negating what The Christ taught about caring for one another... all the while stealing His persona and turning it into evil.

Secured blessings of liberty? Are you shitting me? They die daily with this complicit congress.

The preamble is basically meaningless to those in power.

This is what America has become.

enigma4ever said...

I loved Schoolhouse Rock...and Lucky Charms...I was hoping that it would still be on for my son to wasn''s the thing- great post....because you remembered WE THE PEOPLE...not many do anymore....and we are treated like corporate employees...( badly)...

I Love the Obama Dog shirts...very cool...
( thanks for the speakers too weren't working it was a nice treat)...

M. Robert Turnage said...

Libertarian thought is that the government should not interfere unless the liberties of the individual are harmed. Even Libertarians like Alan Greenspan believed in government regulations of corporations.

Corporations should not have the rights or the power that individuals have, plain and simple.

Curious said...

Okay T, thanks for the response. I guess what you are really telling me is that I can stereotype all I like but as in real life there are different shades to one position. Being open enough and able to choose from all of those aspects is something that I believe in and would encourage.

I would also like to believe that Torrance Stephens and Ian Hicks (my name) is or are more important than AT&T or Wachovia, but in real life, in this age as much as you don't believe that corporations are not the equivalent of people, laws, rules regulations and tax incentives have been written so that they are treated as better than people who can live in perpetuity, kind of like gods.My socialist upbringing may tell me that this is wrong and perhaps even evil and that you are right, but the pragmatic side says "you can't beat City Hall."

To get back to your original premise, Clinton did only what the people wanted him to do, to abolish those pesky socialist New Deal rules set up by FDR and the continued deregulation of the corporations started by the Reagans in order to gain more profit and increase the assets for the individual investor.

The Pew View said...

Hey Baby. I likes that new picture of you with your shirt off. You sho make some pretty babies. I should have had one of my 13 childrens by you. Anyways, me and Mabel needs your opinion on somethang so be sure to read our new post and let us know what you thank. Take care now.

Ruthie Ann

Keli said...

But one could argue that as a corporate shareholder and sovereign citizen, the constitution does provide provisions for my welfare as well as that of my posterity…
Playing devils advocate.

MrsGrapevine said...

Someone needs to remind the President, that corporation aren't citizens and shouldn't have the right to vote as such, or control the politics of the white house as they do now.

2sweetnsaxy said...

We the People and In God We Trust. They've been taking God out of it for some time, why not the people too?

IntrospectiveGoddess said...

I remember School House Rock! My favorite was 3 is the magic number...but anyway the pic of you and your daughter is real nice....

sista gp said...

'bout time there is a pic of you smiling.

Darius T. Williams said...

School House Rock - so yea, I'm way too young to know about that. I love hearing your points of view on certain things though. Good job folk. LOL

Rich said...

I'm digging the conversation. Lovebabz helped me to see your original point more clearly. I'm inclined to agree with her assessment on this one. They never had us in mind which is why they had to amend the original thought.

Tera said...

It's amazing how much I actually DID learn on School House Rock! Nice shout out!

I totally feel that individual rights should be valued in a different light than that of corporations...I have always felt that way.

P.S. Love the new picture sweetheart! :-)

Torrance Stephens bka All-Mi-T said...

Stephen Bess
And I was down with cheerioes

Bravo is all I can say - applause

Good for her and that I could make her dance

OG, The Original Glamazon
Any time scholar LOL

Thanks Mom LOL

U know im surprised u aint say I sounded like Ralph Nander LOL

Thanks hon, and school house was classic

M. Robert Turnage
Glad to see u by again and so true

No thank u, u know u one of the scholars I wait to read in comment form. Without u making me think, the post would not have come to be – thanks for being a friend and even more for being a thinker

The Pew View
Lol, do I detect a thresome LOL

A share holder, an individual is protected

Only if we could obviate K street

Great point

And conjunction junction was mine

sista gp

Darius T. Williams
LOL u killing me DT, it was a classic, need more shows on like that but in between videos would be my suggestion today

Yea folk, like the new profile pic, we both know babz the truth. We gotta use it and all amendments

Torrance Stephens bka All-Mi-T said...

thank u re pic and i learned a lot too

Kitty said...

Oh yes! School House Rock was the ish!! They hafta bring that back for this generation of kids. For reals.
*leaves the box on a search for a DVD box set online*

KELSO'S NUTS said...

T: Going by LOVEBABZ's learned comment, you've presented an entire course in business law and an entire course in the Concept Of The Platonic Ideal in a short post. You devil!

So, I'll restrict myself to one element of joining one's (civil or classical) libertarian politics to opposition to corporate personhood.

I am opposed to the double taxation of corporate dividends -- on corporate EBITDA and again on the individual physical beneficial owner as ordinary income. I am more opposed to the concept of corporate "personhood" except in the case of the Sole Proprietorship, S-Corp or any other 100% pass-through vehicle to one person.

It is very hard to find at least a classical libertarian who shares my point of view. How odd. They wouldn't be classical libertarians, then. They would be in favor of one piece of government interference that favors them and oppose another which doesn't.

If a corporation is not a person but rather a pass-through to its equity and debt holders as ultimate beneficiaries, then it ought not have to pay corporate tax. All taxes must be borne at the individual level.

If a corporation as well its equity and debt holders are all "people" then all are responsible for all taxes on income received.

Torrance Stephens - All-Mi-T said...

u make me sound like and editorial from hell lol

KELSO'S NUTS said...

Like in the old Twilight Zone episode: "always room for one more"

shine said...

I am not a libertarian. I lean more toward libertarian paternalism. I despise the heuristic dogma of market individualism. If left up to the market or corporations, u might still be up on the auction block.

Anonymous said...

Preach Brother! You are definitely well informed. I'm glad that you are educating so many of our folks. I invite you to contribute one or some of your articles to the Kassandra Project.

Our Motto: Freedom against disinformation. I doubt, I think therefore I am. But I am what I think. But could it be a better world?

PLL, CordieB.

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