Tuesday, August 19, 2008

contours of a tragedy

Point of Order: 1] Somebody inform Jones how he can correct an error in Wikapedia. Suggesting that Euclid was Greek when he was born in Africa, died in Africa, and never left the continent a day in his life.

2] Shouts out to my folk at Just Kiss N make-up for giving me the Kreative Blogger award.

I hate to do this but I am gonna leave the pestilence of politics for a moment to dive into an area I love greatly, well two really, history and math. I was reading someone’s blog yesterday and I am sorry I cannot provide the link. But in essence they were talking about the incarceration rates in NYC. I was taken back by their conclusion for although true, they were some what fatuous in their implications. In addition, they seemed to just be thrown out into the blogosphere for no other reason than that (my opinion) but it was a good read.

Without a firm historical presentation, the numbers in social research seem to, really often end up meaning nothing. For me, through the Euclidian structure of how I visualize thought, it is possible to decussate axioms of outcomes, both in time and practice. And I use Euclidian for it references the understanding of relationships with respect to distance (history) and angles in both planes and space. This is constant regardless of geography, region or time if space is seen as the constant. For this it says that prison and slavery are one in the same.

In the blog post, the author seemed amazed. But one should not be if a descent purview of history and thought is held in command. The Spanish government for example started out with the prohibition of having to many male slaves and in 1503, around the start of the Spanish Caribbean Empire, they enacted by philosophy and math a design that would approximate one slave for every three free white men. This was under the reign of Emperor Charles V. Other countries desired an even higher ration of white me (one African slave for every four free white men).

These actions tended to dictate not only population and how slave institutions (including prisons) functioned numerically, but also the philosophical beliefs that would maintain such disparities as evinced currently with prison populations. From David Hume, the supposedly noted philosopher to Thomas Jefferson, we can see how such transpired. Especially if you read Hume’s essay “Of National Character” (1754) or Jefferson’s “Notes on Virginia” (1781). Both claim the natural inferiority of the African with Jefferson even suggesting that Africans were barely above the level of thought of narration. Both said a lot more foul shit but I will not venture any further while attempting to make my point that the numbers we see are the result of historical practices and have been consistent since the days of Alexis DeToqville.

Moreover, such has been manifest by views as the previous to the extent that the belief in natural inferiority and dimness of Africans obviously would mean that education would be impossible and that a system of education, based on the liberal arts (European culture and history) would result in what I wrote in a blog post in February 2006:

If more than 50% of students drop out from high school generally, speaking, how many do you think will be coming from our schools in our neighborhoods? Take it a step farther, if 80 percent of high school drop outs end up in prison and 40 percent of all inmates are darker people, yet these people make only 13 percent of the population, what kind of educated populous will remain to do battle, represent and demand that what we put in we should get back?

There will be none for they will be enslaved, this time in prison. In actuality, I astonished myself at how simplistic the trigonometry regarding these angles connect. So in summary, this is why we see the numbers we do regarding black males in prison; this is why we should not be astonished; this is why we should not be amazed when we see more of us in prison than graduating high schools or attending college. These unfortunately are the contours of a tragedy from a Euclidian perspective, for prison is the higher education in many respects in the US for men of African descent. For with prison, they can maintain a 1 to 3, or even 1 to 4 ratio - for we outside the walls may as well be slaves too. vote


YaBoy Po said...

eh bra i stop by the shop can you smoke one wit ya boy and let a young nigga get laced with some game from a n og ?

Torrance Stephens - All-Mi-T said...

yaboy po
for real though jones

Lina said...

That is such an astonishing presentation of something almost considered the status-quo of our community that it has rendered me speechless.

rainywalker said...

Raw Dawg,
I may or not agree on this equation. But would like to read your research when your done.

no_slappz said...

torrance, the following paragraphs are from the Manhattan Institute and give an accounting of one aspect of activity here in New York City this year:

"In the first six months of 2008, 787 people were shot by 576 gunmen. Eighty-three percent of those shooters were black, according to victims and witnesses, even though blacks make up only 24 percent of the city's population.

"Nearly 78 percent of the victims were black.

"Add in Hispanics, and you account for 98 percent of all shooting perps and 97.5 percent of their victims.

"The police, by contrast, shot 12 suspects, mostly armed, in the first six months of 2008, roughly 90 percent of them black and Hispanic.

"Whites and Asians, roughly 45 percent of city residents, are virtually absent from our gun battles: They made up 1.5 percent of shooting suspects in the first half of 2008, and 2.3 percent of gun victims."

no_slappz said...

torrance, the country of origin and race of Euclid are insignificant factoids that change nothing about his work and whether today's students learn what he discovered.

fly tie said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
fly tie said...

well damn. lol.

re: previous 2 comments..these type of responses *must* be in a manual somewhere, cause they never fail to arise. never. it's amazing. and i thought it was just a lafayette, la thing.

regarding the post...interesting how you laid all this out.
"In the blog post, the author seemed amazed. But one should not be if a descent purview of history and thought is held in command."

i know you're speaking specifically, but i find this to be so true often times in general as well. as you may know, many times people function/respond out of emotion or how they would like to see things rather than dealing with the verifiable facts that history provides. (and i'm mostly talking about on topics revolving around history)

such a shame, cause things could be so much simpler.

T. Michelle Theus said...

"Take it a step farther, if 80 percent of high school drop outs end up in prison and 40 percent of all inmates are darker people, yet these people make only 13 percent of the population, what kind of educated populous will remain to do battle, represent and demand that what we put in we should get back? There will be none for they will be enslaved, this time in prison."

Damn! Just...damn! When I was an undergrad I was always reading newspapers, circulating petitions, volunteering for causes, holding up signs at rallies, and staying abreast of statistics and studies dealing with our struggles. Now that I'm older I hate to read it, because it makes me mad. But I know we have to stay conscious or we perish. Thanks for sharing, Torrance. Talking about it keeps it relevant as we consistently seek solutions and prepare our children to thrive in the midst of it all. Great post.

OG, The Original Glamazon said...

You know I did that blog way back that posted the paper on the Criminal Justice system and its racist underpinning. It said magically after slavery ended all the common things that blacks did became illegal.

Good post!

Oh yeah I thought you just correct Wikipedia sense it content is editable.


heather said...

nothing like a smart man, some new bluesy music and some nice smoke to put a girl in quite the mood.
j may be thanking you and kofi later. ;)

now, as for your wiki issues. check out this link after creating an account. just keep in mind that as i write this, their servers are being updated and you may not be able to make your corrections now. let me know if you need any further assistance.

heather said...

lol, can you tell i used to do tech support?
and to no_slappz, we've gotten lazy. too many people take everything on wiki to be fact when it, like most history, is nothing more than bits and pieces of the collective's thoughts and opinions sprinkled with provable fact. sometimes it's hard to tell opinion from fact.
the honorable thing to do when you see a wrong thing is to do what you can to correct it. it's nice to know that being honorable isn't completely extinct. just endangered. :)

at least that's my take on it. ;)

Torrance Stephens - All-Mi-T said...

Thank u sista

on what folk, Euclid, Jefferson, hume, charles V, drop outs – I got them folk email me, didnt want to bore u

Really a simple explaination would be ted keneddy and regan, drugs, and three strikes – oh don’t forget drug free zone and sentence amplification

True, just as if I said Thomas Jefferson was a greek. wouldnt bother u im sure

fly tie
Thanks babe still cant see u up in my camp and aint holla

T. Michelle Theus
U make me feel like I did something special hon when thinking is my duty in the age of the fk boy and bitch azz niggaz

OG, The Original Glamazon
U know im posed to be one of the top 3 or 4 in my field, infectious diseas among incarcerated populatons. Go down rt side bar to selected scientific publications

Roll up a fat one mane, u saying im sexy or my mind? lol

U se I hit slappz with the simple simp

heather said...

a man's mind can be a very sexy thing.
and for me it's always the peace pipe. none but. ;)
nice slap.

Kayos said...

The stat you wrote in red is truly disturbing to me...

I wish people wouldn't exaggerate stats for the fun of getting a point across. Perpetuating the madness is done enough in the white house.

Rich said...

this one is making my head hurt -- you got me.

paisley said...

point of order 1) join wikipedia, sign in, go to the euclid page, click on the edit this tab at the top of the article,, have at it...

Gorgeous Geek said...

I learn something new every time i stop by =]


RunningMom said...

It's in our power to raise up the next generation to disenigrate the uneducated mentality. Turn the TV's off. Fill homes with books. Encourage education and infuse your children with character. Lead by example. When your children see you read a book, they will read.

Get your children, neices and nephews out of their neighborhoods and into the world. So many of our youth grow up thinking their "block" is all there is, and all there will be.

And too many die in the process.

Sylvia Hubbard said...

i know this is totally off topic to say, but i actually live on a street called Euclid and the other day I was wondering about the word and where it came from. Thanks.

Sylvia Hubbard said...

PS...didn't i tell you how much an educated man turns me on. Stop it! I can't change my panties at work!

Q said...

Wow, very insightful post!

Q said...

Wow, very insightful post!

shaun. said...

very good post.

im not sure if i completely agree with you. there are alot of factors the play into the overbearing number of minorities in camparison white in prison.

i agree that past plays a great role, but im not sure of this connection.

whatever the case, i liek your blog man. keep doin what you do.

shaun...pros thoughts.

shaun. said...

btw, wiki info is editable. its often wrong.

Jamal O said...

Thanks Bro,

I was at T.U. the other day.
Next time I'll stop through

572 Edgewood 117

got it

no_slappz said...


I am not sure what you meant by your reference to "ted keneddy and regan, drugs, and three strikes – oh don’t forget drug free zone and sentence amplification..."

Personally, I would decriminalize drugs and put Kennedy on trial for the death of Mary Jo Kopechne. Voters should have dumped decades ago. However, they didn't.

Meanwhile, almost all black political and community leaders are opposed to drug decriminalization.

What's to be done?

Even though Obama has mentioned this topic, he knows he risks his political future by seeking decriminalization of drugs. Thus, it won't happen if he is elected.

Melody.Darlene said...

u shoulda done a blocked quote from the other blog. im interested to read what it said now!

The Urban Scientist said...


Eddie G. Griffin said...

Quack math, but interesting concept.

OG, The Original Glamazon said...

Checkin it out right now sir!! We'll have to talk, I've been doing some sideline stuff on prison systems etc.


T.Allen-Mercado said...

Re: Euclid


Torrance, not only are you smart but a man of admirable restraint.

Torrance Stephens - All-Mi-T said...

So im sexy to u tooo -lol

Me too

My fault folk y is that

point of order 1) join wikipedia, sign in, go to the euclid page, click on the edit this tab at the top of the article,, have at it...

Gorgeous Geek
U welcome ms biochemistry


Sylvia Hubbard
Im sexy to u too - lol

Thank u folk, I agree, this is just one. And I have noticed that bout wikapedia

btw, wiki info is editable. its often wrong.

Jamal O
Anytime folk

no_slappz said
Just asking whats wrong with being accurate

Cant recant the blog folk

The Urban Scientist
Not ment to be just an esoteric application of space and fractions

Eddie G. Griffin
are u saying euclid is a quack or me?
my masters is in statistics, what math is yourt phd in
ps: i also taught axiomatic set theory and physics

and chk the 50 plus scientific pubs on my rt side bar

OG, The Original Glamazon
Like I said chk scientific pubs on left side bar

Thanks hon, and y u sat that.

SjP said...

I left you a little sumthin sumthin @ SjP's.

Big Man said...

Thanks for the info on the slave ratio to white men. That's something to ponder for real.

KELSO'S NUTS said...

JONES: Agree completely and there's NEVER enough discussion about the barbarism, injustice, inhumanity and lack of proportionality in the American "jsutice" system.

You use Euclid which makes perfect sense. I use a different abstraction which can certainly be drawn with Eulclidean surfaces: THE FUNGIBILITY OF MONEY...

...Add that to an US tax law concept: "debt relief is equal to income"...

...Add to that a very, very questionable US statutary concept of recent vintage (I don't even know how far this has been tested if at all in the courts) called "privatization of prisons"...AND YOU HAVE PROOF OF YOUR HYPOTHESIS.

Andrew Louis said...

vary interesting idea. I'd be interested in getting more detail on your idea, perhaps you could post some more detain on this.

I've always tended to believe that part of the problem lies in the supposed fact that our education system is really set up for girls.

This isn't the greatest, but consider THIS

As a result more boys drop out and racism takes care of the rest; there's no place for an uneducated black man in society. And as these men have boys of they're own, the safety net to get them through is weak.

Bottom line:
Our education system is not designed to take care of our boys, and we still to some degree live in a male dominated society.

sista gp said...

High School drop-out rates have been on my mind for awhile now. A few weeks ago, I had a conversation with several instructors at my son's summer camp. They spoke of how kids are waiting to turn 16, so they can drop out.
There is no interest in school for them. There is no push to teach skills to students that won't make it to post-secondary education. The focus is to just pass the standardized tests. There used to be classes like carpentry and shop. They taught a trade.
Found out that my former high school did not make accrediation and now is being taken over by the state.
This school used to be one of the highest ranked schools in the state.
I have some ideas in my head on how former graduates can get involved with the school, not just on career day, to work with the students, faculty, and administration, to help keep these kids in school and help them to be able to survive in the real world after graduation.

I guess I need to start writing the ideas down in a journal.

btw, after two weeks, I am finally off the narcotics and back on blogging. Although, I did have trouble sleeping without the good stuff last night; it will be an adjustment.

heather said...

now don't go getting big headed over it.
you have your moments.

Torrance Stephens - All-Mi-T said...

Thanks for the award

Big Man
We need to think about everything

Thanks jones, but you read how some one called it quack math

Andrew Louis
So true in fact to push us away, but it didn’t used to be like

sista gp
Well said, and u and them drugs, u know I don’t take mine after oral surgery, single parent, got wacth these knuckle heads lol

LOL yes maam

sista gp said...

Hey, I only took the good stuff during the day on the surgery day and the day after. Couldn't keep it down anyway. After getting the new stuff last week, I only took it at night when son went to sleep. Had to be out of my system before driving to work and school the next day.

Safety first before being painless!

no_slappz said...

t.allen-mercado included a link to PHILIP EMEAGWALI in her post.

PHILIP EMEAGWALI is a well known fraud. Despite his claims, he holds NO patents and NO PhD. And NONE of his claims about achievements are true except for winning a $1,000 prize 20 years ago.

It's unfortunate that so many people willingly believe false stories like his.

no_slappz said...

torrance, you wrote:

"True, just as if I said Thomas Jefferson was a greek. wouldnt bother u im sure"

Your statement makes no sense. Particularly because we know where Jefferson was born. Perhaps he had a Greek ancestor. Who cares?

Euclid, based on ALL the evidence was Greek. But, as I said, his ethnicity and country of origin are insignificant.

If I were to accept the view you seem to express through your belief that Euclid was African, I should also begin to believe that a vast portion of the world's intellectual advancements were the products of African minds, and the intellectual fruit was stolen by whites.

But nothing supports this concept.

Torrance Stephens - All-Mi-T said...

no he wasnt
key word you know

I was taught pythagoras was responsible for a therom that was in use 900 years before his birth - see pyramids

Where was he born? Egypt, where did he die? egypt. Egypt aint in Greece, its Africa, so south white africans aint africans - represent folk. Hellinestic is what they say, but these the same folk that refuted the moors, who taught europeans for more than 300 years the world was round - they selected to belive it was flat.

no_slappz said...

torrance, you wrote:

"no he wasnt
key word you know"

Again, I do not know what the preceding means.

As for Pythagoras, it does not mean much that a mathematical concept was somehow in the air centuries before someone provided a "proof" for it.

Newton gave humanity a formula for gravity. But that did not stop earlier humans from operating with some understanding of it.

Regarding the birthplace of Pythagoras, does it matter?

As a graduate of engineering school, I can tell you that the birthplaces of the mathematicians, scientists and engineers whose work I studied never appeared as an exam question and never affected the value of their work.

If I learn that Pythagoras came from Mars, nothing will change.

Meanwhile, you seem to think that popular opinion is the only test that matters. Who cares if millions of people thought the Earth was flat long after some people knew otherwise?

Meanwhile, it's unlikely the Moors had sailed around the world or to the Americas before others. But what if it's true? How does the world change?

In the course of human history, the Earth was always round and the continents and oceans were always where they are today. The fact that humans were ignorant of these physical facts until the second millennium is meaningless.

SagaciousHillbilly said...

T, I dunno, the numbers seem so obvious, but it is so hard for people to understand. . . especially those who are not directly effected by it.

For a historical perspective, Ron Takaki's Iron Cages: Race and Culture in 19th Century America is my favorite.

SagaciousHillbilly said...

You truly are an engineer. Having worked with mostly PhD engineers most of my career, you are easy to recognize. Social concepts escape you. The importance of personal, cultural and social identity escapes you. I marvel at how the world can be explained mathmatically, but I also realize that such information is only a small part of the equation.

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