Friday, August 29, 2008

open thread (8.29.08)

Did Obama do enough to win? Did his speech convert any of the 20% I have spoke of previously or was he preaching to the choir?

Note: Will add music on weekends only - too much work.


Lovebabz said...

YES and YES!


MP said...

Obama's speech was lovely but nothing new. I'm a supporter but as I listened I wondered if I was part of the 20% would I se swayed. My answer would have to be no. Had any of them heard any of his other speeches this one would have been just another one.

Blog Queen said...

Obama did enough to win a long time ago. But like he said last night it's not about him it's about us. Of course he used the statement in a different still applies. People (his opponents) are going to have to search deep and determine why it is they are opposed to him. Is it because he promises change and they find his promises hard to believe. All politicians promise's part of the process...Is it because he is a freshmen senator with little political experience....I think not. One of the most popular presidents we ever had...NEVER held a political office before becoming the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES...not a member of the senate, house, state govt...nothing....Dwight Eisenhower (and he served two terms)...Are they opposed to him because he wants to raise taxes on the wealthiest of Americans, demand equal pay for women, bring our troops home, re-establish our moral and ethical soundness as a nation, continue off-shore drilling which protects our coastlines and wildlife, make the education of our youth top priority..If it's none of the aforementioned could only be one other thing....and that my friends...HE CAN'T DO A DAMN THING ABOUT...

Demetrius said...

His speech was too far fetched into the plans of the future. "We can hear and see those plans come into fruition during his term in office!" This was a special night, he should have spoken more about the racial divides in this country, he should have spoken "more" from his heart. Speaking briefly about Dr. King edified his message, he could have said more!! Overall, it was an effective enough speech to discredit whatever John McCain is going have to say next week. And that will give him (Obama) time to seek and gain more approval from those who are now at the crossroads when it comes to their political and racial views.

~only time will tell

Kay C, The Quiet Storm said...

I think it was a good speeach, but he seemed to promise a lot that he may not be able to deliver. A lot of people have to be on board with him in order to change the legislation that he spoke on.

It all boils down to people, and people are very fickle. He may have won some but he may have lost a few as well. It will be interesting to watch in November.

NoRegrets said...

It was a good speech and presented really well, but in the end it's all political rhetoric. Actions speak louder than words. Though I imagine some more conservative people who heard the 'lower taxes but increase services' might be scared away.

Sheliza said...

He gave such a great speech and all the footage of his life was indeed touching. I think most Americans were moved and possibly swayed because he is all about working families. Of course on the other hand, it will take a very long time for all he wants to do to actually happen. Nothing happens overnight. I do agree that 8 is enough... Have a great weekend :)

The Jaded NYer said...

I'll tell you what- he didn't convert me because I was otherwise occupied and did not bother to hear his speech. Because a speech is just that- a speech. And I take everything and anything a politician says with ten trillion grains of salt.

ShAé - ShAé said...

I think he did. But I'm still not sure if the walking dead will understand the importance of voting for change. People are creatures of habit and if they've never voted, cared about politics and have not awakened yet, I don't know if there's any hope for them.

Kayos said...

That man's speech was enough to turn the die-hard over to the next side.

He would be a great leader who will bring intelligence and respect back to the Office that once had it but lost it due to the moron in office at the moment.

I will say this though...

I feel the DNC should have been after the RNC because it's like a courtroom, the defense attorney gets the opportunity to go last in closing arguments. His speech impact would have been better if he had spoken after the Moron's puppet, John McCain.

Jazzy said...

Did it sway you RDB?

Anonymous said...

It was a good speech, but I will always take everything poligicians say with a grain of salt.

I decided to vote for him months ago, can wait to see if he lives up to the hype.

Anonymous said...

I think Obama did an amazing job last night! To be honest, my heart wasn't prepared for the joy I felt last night! It was beautiful, poignant, strong, and most importantly, it's what our children needed to see and hear, so that they can live their dreams and believe in themselves.

Blog Queen said...

John McCain did pick Sarah Palin. This is going to be interesting. She's 44 years old with 5 kids and is the Governor of Alaska

sista gp said...

Saw the beginning of the speech.
Saw the end of the speech.
Fell asleep in the middle. Have to catch it on C-SPAN online this weekend.

Must be working too hard this week.

Anyway, I am trying to see how McCain/GOP/RNC are going to discredit the desire for better education, equal opportunity/pay for all, better healthcare opportunities. Basically, equal human and social rights for all.

Torrance Stephens - All-Mi-T said...


1 +1 = 2 LOL

Im with you on that

Blog Queen
If such was the case, wouldnt he be president as of now?

Thats what im afraid the 20% will say

Kay C, The Quiet Storm
I agree


great point and i can see that as well

I can see that too but most Americans at the 20% im speaking of, how was first week of school

LOL ten trillion grains of salt.
thats more salt than i take them for. have a great weekend

ShAé - ShAé
and your rationale

i think RNC may have some issues with the tropical storm so make work on behalf of dnc

all i can say is wait on my post sunday

u are not the 20 percent i am speaking of lol

now that is so true

so what does that mean? hillar votes for him maybe?

Lena said...

stats, agh! Have fun. Hopefully I never have to sit through another one of those classes.

As for the speech....I missed it. :-/ I was on the subway in route to the Bronx.

Kofi said...

The best part was the last ten minutes.

I'm not a good judge of Obama because I decided to vote for him long ago, and his messages don't really "resonate" with me anymore. His rhetoric I thought was fine. Not earth-shattering. I appreciated that he wasn't trying to catch shine (overtly) from MLK or civil rights leaders of the past. John Edwards tried hard to do stuff like that.

That took a lot of humility.

Maybe Cornell West, Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson etc could learn soemthing from him and stop hating.

I am loving the news about Sarah Palin.

NoRegrets said...

Happy statistic-ing! I'm sure you'll make it fun for them.

KELSO'S NUTS said...

He didn't have to do much to convince me because I was already convinced. Sadly, I can't vote and by law he'd have to return any contribution I would care to make. So, I don't count materially.

I do count, though, as a blog voice. His speech and the way his convention built to support the speech both get As from me, so I'll continue to advocate for him so long as he doesn't have anything to do with Colin Powell formally.

It isn't a partisan or color thing at all. It's a hating Powell because he's a sadist thing!

I've got no problem with Obama's having Mankiw on his economic team. That covers partisanship. I'd be thrilled if Deval Patrick or Eric Holder were Attorney General. That covers color. Powell for me is Powell and I'll never stop loathing him. He doesn't have enough days left breathing air to change my mind even if he were to devote himself solely to human kindness and well-being.

He won't do that anyway. He'll make corporate speeches. He'll have a couple of books ghosted for him. He'll try to impede any peace-making efforts on Obama's part.

So, I'll continue to try to convince people that Obama's the right man.

I'm pretty surprised that there are still people undecided. I could see where Obama's speech might have brought in some potential McKinney, Barr or Nader voters but how could anyone else be undecided between Obama and McCain.

I don't blame any Republican loyalist or ideological right-winger for voting for McCain. I don't blame anyone who dislikes the two party system and identifies more with one of the off-candidates for not voting for Obama, either in protest or support for non-mnainstream ideas.

Anyone not in either of those two groups who votes for McCain is a racist plain and simple.

Tera said...

I LOVE that man! His speeches send chills down my spine...that man says everything we need to hear, and what the Republicans are afraid to hear.

He betta do da damn thang!

Rich said...

Who's running the shop? Baby Girl?

I will admit, some of his stuff is going to be hard to get and most of the results would be beyond his term, even if he got two of them.

I have mixed feelings on taxing the rich, but he mixed it up by saying he would tax those who are starting up differently. While that benefits folks like me, I still think folks who work just as hard to make super bucks deserve to not have to give up most of their loot.

I can't feel sorry for the oil companies, cause they make loot on EVERYBODY. They got us all by the balls.

So, I'm still down for Obama. In fact, I'm looking into actually working an election this year. So in that light, he is pushing me to act in ways that I haven't wanted to before.

Keli said...

I felt like I was sitting in of those Sundays where you're just not connecting with the man delivering the word...

He touched on the issues...but he really did not discuss the issues. He let us know what's wrong, but did he really say how he plans to make it right?

And that entire cutting tax issue (I tend to lean conservatively on issues regarding the economy)...if he plans to cut taxes as he mentioned...someone's going to pay for it...some way some how...

I did note that he's changed his stance on the capital gains tax...he was for raising it, even though history shows that a raise in capital gains tax leads to a direct decrease in revenue...this at least showed me that he has been a student during these elections...that he's learning from those more knowledgeable...which gives me confidence that he would heed the advice of those around him...

If he assembles a strong cabinet I think he will do just fine.

And for those Hillary haters...I strongly feel that she would make a great Secretary of State...and she will be probably be a cabinet member.

And that's my two cents.

KaNisa said...

I'm still not going to buy an Obama t-shirt or sticker or anything, but I guess out of everyone in poo poo and the crew...he's the most feasible person.

Though McKinney is who I would really support...

Tha BossMack TopSoil said...

B.O. Rocked Tha House. BUT, What it Do wit MacCain Now? Palin is sending her son to Iraq and she has no wrinkles.

Urban Thought said...

He's preaching to the choir on this one.

Now that McCain has selected his running mate I'm sure all the white woman will rally behind him.

Soulstress said...

He didnt sway me...but then again I didnt watch either lol.

Interesting Mccain chose a woman...*sigh*..was hopin Obama wulda chose Hil..just cuz I's a Clinton supporter...but I think Mccain was smart for choosin a female to run w/ him. I sumwhat agree with urban thoughts last statement.

Anonymous said...

Hey Dawg,

They put on a really great show last night, huh?

Seems to have swayed many. The timing was perfect. The Corporate money was flowing by the Millions. They laid out a wonderful life story documentary of Mr Obama.

And speaking of him... god damn, what an amazing, charismatic individual. He can really speak to my (and many others) hopes and dreams, can't he?


I was blown away...


Just how did he address the most important driving issue that is tearing apart our country (the ever expansion of the American empire)? It is this imperialism that is corporately forced upon us by the very same owners of the MSM (Raytheon, GE, etc, that own Big Media) that wasn't discussed (except to want to EXPAND it).

So, as a previous poster claimed, I wonder if "bringing the troops home" means something. It means moving them to that 'other war' in Afghanistan and then to Pakistan. It means adding MORE to the armed forces. THAT is what Mr Obama means.

He flexed his "Bushlike" muscles last night with his promise for unilateralism (taking the fuckers out without the world's, or our allies' agreement), not to mention how he jumped off of the Palestinians' plight on to the Israeli's plight of the 'Iran Booga Booga Man'.

Should I be happy he is going to tax the rich bastards again, like they should be taxed.

Yeah. Whoopty do. Thanks for making things right again.

What about that health plan? Did you notice the one clear element he left out of the equation? Single payer, not-for-profit healthcare for all?

You know, the cool shit all the cool countries have that disallows bankruptcy (which is WAY over 1,000,000 Americans per year due to healthcare)?

I wonder how much corporate influence there is on his hedge, when that was the buzzword during the Primaries and helped him beat Hill/Bill?

And speaking of corporations... anyone else wonder how much cash a presidential candidate could stuff into an AT&T tote bag?

I mean, isn't amazing his "change" in holding them accountable turned to support for their illegal activities. That reminds me of the current disaster-in-chief.


Many people were had. And those very people will be bitching this time again in three years if the 'hope man' doesn't come through.

And he won't.

The Empire lives on, just as if McCain were running things.

The only difference is a shade of skin tone.

KELSO'S NUTS said...

@ KANISA: I'm well-off and White and live in a foreign country and I agree more with Cynthia McKinney than I do with Obama. While I like her philosophy better, I think he would make the better president. I have had many laments about Obama's surrender on issues of importance to me but no seriously "left wing" (in the world, not American sense, can get elected in America).

You and I may be in a small coterie but we exist.

I believe it's beyond essential that Obama be elected president but I'd like to see McKinney as a Green Party LEADER and get enough of a vote total to qualify for matching funds. I can't vote or donate money to US candidates or parties by law. If I still lived in the States, my vote would depend on where I lived. If I lived in a lock state for Obama or McCain, I'd vote for McKinney. If I lived in a contested state I'd vote for Obama.

How does a middle-aged, White well-off capitalist, Russian Jewish Panamanian born in New York come to like McKinney, you ask?

When I lived in the US I was very interested ih politics and I assumed I had the freedom to believe what I liked. I read her voting record during her campaig against Majette because my views of the Middle East were more like McKinney's than like Majette's. That was the key issue in the race I understand. Having read her votes I found no objection whatsoever to any vote she had cast. Moreover, I despise AIPAC and feel they had no business messing around in that CD.

Curious said...

To answer your question. No.

Obama hit all the points that he has hit before. If people weren't convinced before I doubt that they would have been convinced now. It was a good speech and I agree with much of it, but there seemed to be parts in it that the Republicans could latch on to and turn against him. He spoke about social programs that I believe in but failed to say how he would pay for them without raising taxes. He spoke about bringing home the troops but failed to say how. He spoke about spending billions on new energy and creating jobs that would not be outsourced overseas but didn't explain why. Fodder for McCain and doubt for the independents.

I wasn't thrilled by the speech and I support him. If I wasn't then I doubt that those undecided would be to.

Anonymous said...

nope. the man can speak but the whole DP needs to pack some type of punch. I see this election going down race/gender lines regardless of everything that has been said and done.

and did you peep the GOP VP? what the f***?!

KaNisa said...

I hear you kelso's nuts...(lol...)

I really feel like in the grand scheme of things, democrats are just left of center and republicans are just right of center. I'm wondering how much change the Obama can do if the government isn't really trying to shift beyond where it normally is.

It would be great if the green party could get more pull though. I think they would bring REAL change, though I think they are too far left for most people's tastes.

msladydeborah said...


Only time will tell what impact Barack or Flipper will have on the voting public.

Last night, that was not on my mind during his speech. My view was focused on savoring the moment. I did not give a damn about the talking heads or the opinion polls.

That was/is a moment that I had no idea of what my inner sense of feeling would be. As I said on my blog~it felt good.

In reality, anything can happen between now and the election. Outside of God, who honestly knows what the end result will be? I am hoping that I will be blessed to see the end of this leg of the course.

Jersey Girl said...

I don't know. I'm not sure it matters, because McCain's choice of a running mate just might win the election for Obama. I know any number of staunch republicans who would rather vote for a black man than a woman any day. And she's already involved in a scandal!

I don't care how it happens...I just want to be done with the current regime, McCain included. He's part of the problem because he's vote with Bush 90% of the time. If they call him a maverick one more time I think I'll scream!!

blackstar said...

I will say that I was happy to see him FINALLY toughen up on some of the attacks that have been thrown at him. So, that was definitely a change for the good.

PrettyBlack said...

Obama did that shit....and as eloquent as always.

KELSO'S NUTS said...

@ KANISA: You have a very optimistic view of DEM and GOP ideologies. What you've described are the two major parties in every other nation in the capitalist-democratic-republican-parliamentary West. A center-left "Socialist" or "Labor" or "Revolutionary" or "Democratic" or "Liberal" party and a center right "Union" or "Alliance" or something historical or folkloric party.

All of the hot-button social issues in the US like abortion (freedom to choose, state pays), all contraceptives available over the counter, no death penalty, no custudial sentences for minors, no custodial sentence for victimless crimes, few custodial sentences for non-violent crimes, complete for privacy, either gay marriage legal or civil union wit full force of law...I could go on and on...but you get the point.

The world's left and right consider those closed issues.

I see the two American Parties this way: a centrist-to-conservative party and a Theocratic Totalitarian party.

DeadMule said...

Good speech, but not over the top. I hope he has enough to win. People seem to know already who they will vote for.

RiPPa said...

Beyond his speech, or his speeches, not much is said of his campaigns use of modern technology to motivate the masses.

The internet sure has become a tool for politicians, and I think he owes much of his success to this medium.

KELSO'S NUTS said...

JONES: You should be able to teach the intro course from memory. I taught it one summer as a favor to a professor who helped me with about a million money-making ideas and vetted all of my sports models.

This is what I took away from the experience. Take your time teaching the Bernoulli Process and Binomial Theorem. Students are conditioned to think in terms of streaks and they have to be broken of that. Best pedagogical aids I found were NBA registers and FG shooting Pcts. Also, the coin-flipping bar bet really drives the point home.

The Central Limit Theorem as it's presented in the textbook is awful. That's a pity because it's beautiful in its simplicity. Best way to teach it is with a bag full of about 50 dice, each obviously with a uniform distribution of 1-6. Just have them note how GAUSSIAN the distributions become as you throw more and more dice and plot more and more of the totals thrown. A 7-year old can understand it if demonstrated that way.

Hypothesis testing is straightforward, EXCEPT in certain situations and the "s" or "t" tests give way to the "F" test even when the underlying distribution is normal or lognormal. The way I recall it, the "F" test was perferrable in such things as changes in securities prices in very strong bull or bear markets.

Bayes' Theorem is tough for intro students to get a hold of. I used an imaginary sporting event and a modified "Parable Of The Cave" to teach it. I started out with,say, an NCAA hoops matchup, Vanderbilt+17 -105 away to MEMPHIS-17-105. Tell the student that she's in a cave and can only see faint shadows of the players on the court. When she emerges from the cave you tell her she was right there was a game. Tell her that the total of the game was 130" points flat and that it went over by a good amount. Then say, given that new information, which team won?


I think he was on the right track. I wasn't a fully committed Obamanian while Hillary was in the running.

Added to his set of to do list, Obama will have to contend with lil old McCain's recent move which was a brilliant tactic.

As ever, things are just to starting to get uglier and dirtier. Obama will have to roll up his sleeves and hit the ground running double time, nay, make that treble time.

Kit (Keep It Trill) said...

I liked his speech a lot, but then again, I'm at the edge of his choir.

Jackie Edwards said...

because i cannot vote, my voice doesn't resonate quite as loudly i'm sure, but after watching obama's speech the other night and listening to the radio the following day, i'm pretty sure there were some converts. at least that's what some of the callers in to the michael basden show said....

brran1 said...

Sure, the speech was powerful. But I'm a firm believer in the adage: "Actions speak lowder than words."

Miss Soul said...

So much I agree with in these comments...So much I question.

I loved Obama's speech. it was the first time in a long time that I felt any pride, or that someone would make good on the promise of hope.
I think people need to be aware of the fact that the change that Obama's been speaking of will not come over night. It's going to take a good part of his administration before we see major changes.
McCain's choice is a smoke screen at best. I am going to put it like this... Even IF I was on the fence between McCain and Obama McCain's choice would have pushed me to Obama anyway. Sarah Palin mother of 5, one time PTA President, City Councilwoman, Mayor of 9000, and recent Governor of Alaska does NOT have my confidence. I don't believe for one minute that she had enough experience to to hold the office of VP let alone being that close to the Oval Office. She's second in command to who would be our second oldest President (Reagan being the first). McCain dies, is shot, stumps his toe whatever...he can't lead and suddenly Mrs. Palin is our commander and chief...that doesn't even sound right.
During McCain's entire run he;s told us what? That Obama is younger than he is, that Obama is more popular than he is and that Obama doesn't have the ability to lead due to his age and his lack of foreign policy experience...SO McCain goes and picks Mrs Palin who is younger than Obama, even less popular than McCain AND has even LESS experience than Obama. She's never served the Senate, she doesn't have that impressive of an educational back ground... I nearly have more qualifications than she does.
I'm sure he feels like women will flock to him and that is why he picked her. It has nothing to do with who she is as a politician but everything to do with Palin being a woman. He figures he'll run the country she'll follow nice and easy.

no_slappz said...

Thursday night Obama accepted the Democratic nomination for the presidency and reminded people what he would do in office.

He said he would rewrite a couple of critical laws of physics and chemistry while attempting to overpower a few critical economic theories.

He said he would send piles of money to public schools because he believes taxpayers can finance the defeat of social pathologies through school spending. That's like saying we can cure cancer if we cure the common cold.

He said he'd mandate higher wages for everybody, and he'd do it through the power of taxation. But then he said he'd punish companies that send jobs to other countries.

I was wondering how he would handle the Auto Industry. Raise wages and force them to build cars here. With the expense of higher wages and more domestic manufacturing, the price of these cars would rise. Who would buy them? Who would buy them when less expensive imports are available?

He said he'd give everyone medical insurance. But he would cut the cost of medical insurance. How does that happen when 45 million uninsured people are added to healthcare programs? Is he expecting all the extra doctors, nurses, technicians, therapists and administrators to work for free? Seems that he is expecting something like that.

Of course he was engaging in political theater. But he said what he said, and he promised changes that would require more deficit spending than the country has ever seen. And he would begin his program of unrelenting borrowing when the country is already too leveraged to support a huge increase.

By the way, he forgot to acknowledge that we have effectively won the war in Iraq. It appears Democrats missed that one, or they are way too embarrassed to admit what they know.

Meanwhile, Obama did promise to invade Pakistan, figuring, I suppose, that if US troops kill bin Laden, the war on islamic madmen will end. It seems he wants to start his own troubles in a muslim country even though he knows from our experience in Iraq that these things take more time and money than leaders estimate at the start.

KELSO'S NUTS said...

No_slappz: When did you become such a fiscal conservative?

Big Cheekz said...

i didn't watch O's speech bcs i fell asleep, but i had recorded it. i heard before watching that it was very emotional & i heard from both fems & dudes that it made them cry or almost cry. when i finally watched it 2 days later, the speech didn't seem any different than the previous ones from him. i was moved more so by Michelle's speech than O's, but i am still a fan.

AAW said...

I think the fact that many on the Republican side commended Obama on his speech to the point of Pat Buchanan and Ed Rollins calling it one (if not) the best they've heard, says a lot.

Do I think it might convert some staunch Republicans? Not necessarily. But Independents? He has a shot.

Missy said...

I think Obama gave a great speech. With that said, he was indeed preaching to the choir and possibly made a few converts. The real problem is that the choir that is signing OBAMA OBAMA OBAMA aren't all registered to vote and of those that are, some still won't get out there and do it.

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