Friday, May 16, 2008

when a 70 is an F

There once was a time when education, regardless of gender, race or economic status was valued more so than anything else. It was seen as the great equalizer and the one intangible that was attainable by every one.

Today seems that the value for education has diminished greatly, and that the transformation of values as such has turned for the worse. I had conversation with my folk this morning about his. As usual we saw this from different angles. He suggested that the values have not changed; it was that people tended to finish college but would still have no job, so I was not as important as it used to be in past days. My position was not based on securing jobs, but rather the value of pedagogy in general.

Although I do not remember the time when my mom and her siblings went to school, I do remember seeing pictures. First it had to be hell and high water for them to miss a day in school and second they always had books in their hands.

My grandma would always say she never went to school. She had to work and getting married at sixteen meant she placed her family first. But this was in the late 1930s – a few decades before Brown versus the Topeka Board of education.

Today, it seems to be just different. Told him that 70% of the young African American males that enter the 9th grade wont graduate or finish school with their peers. That means that only 3 out of ten graduate high school, at least on time. Because of this 70 percent, nearly 80 percent eventually drop out.

I consider this foul on two fronts. First is our disposition and concern of materialism in the form of objects versus what one produces with his mind. Add to that our inability to want to work hard and delay gratification for the attainment of easy money. The last front is governmental, being that more money is spent on subsidies for oil companies, big business and given to places like Israel and Pakistan than is spent on education with respect to our public schools and the pay of teachers and institutions of higher learning with the reduction of grants, student aid and loans for those interested in college.

Again, I’m just venting, and sad. I used to hate being one of the two or three African American male professors at Emory University. I felt like I had to represent all of the African American men in the world and could only kick it with the building and grounds crew outside of the two aforementioned professors. In my book, this 70 is not a C, but really an F.

45 comments:

The Urban Scientist said...

PREACH.

The True Urban Queen aka Sharon said...

It is a sad thing that more YOUNG black males can be found in prison than, in college.
I know a girl who is supporting two of her nieces who at sixteen and seventeen she has allowed to drop out of school. I asked her what did they plan on doing and how would they get jobs to support themselves she just shrugged. And the worse thing is the sixteen year old can not read (she can read on a a first grade level. The way she struggles is heartbreaking).
That is a failure on the school system but, also on the parents who do not teach the importance of education.
The woman who cares for them gave me the excuse of their mother dying and having a hard life but, a hard life is all they will have without education and direction.

D'lee Trecia said...

Let it be Known!

I wish I had it within me to really take it all seriously. I used to love school as a child..

in my case when your "deaf" hard of hearing, its already out there that you are slower then the norm... I lost interest but that didn't stop me from continuing to teach myself stuff...

12kyle said...

I didn't know that stat, bruh. That is really scary. Keep droppin tha knowledge

the prisoner's wife said...

i don't even want to get into the education debate. it's dismal to saw the least. i look at my students and i'm worried. they don't seem the least bit interested in learning or reading or anything that will carry them into society. *sigh*

anyway...hello! i've been MIA, but i'm sorta back.

The Jaded NYer said...

I used to listen to my family talk about school back in DR, and their preparedness for the "global world" was so much better than ours today!

For example, my mom had to learn the history of DR, PLUS all of the Southern and Latin Am. countries, AND Spain... AND be able to recite it from memory at the drop of a dime!

My 7th grader asked me JUST YESTERDAY if Chicago was in Ohio. I wanted to cry.

Today I ordered an atlas from Amazon... if the school doesn't care to educate our kids and prepare them for the world, then it has to be up to us, the elders/parents/etc to pick up the slack.

These dropouts- where are their parents? Their caregivers? I don't want to point fingers, but c'mon now! Who is OK with their child dropping out of school???

*sigh*

Clay Lowe said...

yo bro i am indeed enjoying the book. thanks, and poland was a trip...

C

Haute in LA said...

I can only say “wow,” and drop my head to pray. Hopefully 14 years from now as my nephew walks across the stage, on his way to the college of his choosing, he is among the 50% not 30%. We must do better…

Lena said...

The topic of our failing education system specifically with black and latino students always makes me upset. I believe though that it's on the system and on parents. There are a lot of parents who feel it is solely based on the school system to teach their children. I've had parents who would ask how their child did at the END of the year despite family newsletters, invites to family events at the school and etc. It has to be instilled in children at a young age to value and appreciate education so they can want to continue doing better and raise the standards.

Tha BossMack TopSoil said...

Shit is fucked up for us, those statistics make you afraid. I see it all day out there in them streets tho.

Rich said...

To me, it all falls back to the parents. Too many parents paint a false picture of what life is like. Kids receive way too much entertainment via TV and Video Games, and parents go out of their way to give them too much without making them work for it. That isn't a value system based on a strong work ethic and education, it's one based on entertainment.

Terry said...

Excellent post!

Two things - First, you hammered that nail on its proverbial head. No one wants to work hard for what appears like nothing and sacrifice for a better day. Education does not readily afford one "instant gratification". And that's a shame, knowledge is a powerful tool. You should get excited when you have learned something new.

Second, I agree that this is a social issue at the grass roots. Why was education so important to the African-American community back in the day? Because it was difficult to attain. In fact, down right refused to them for many years. It was a precious thing. After all, you never miss the blooms, until you are not allowed to plant the flowers.

In the end however you have to call it like it is. Yes parents of today just don't get it, and yes, especially in the African-American community, the systemic actions of racisms have created a negative ethos. But it doesn't stop there. Our society across the board is mailing it in. We don't want to work or give anything up to attain anything. And like anything else, if you can't meet the standard, lower it.

There is an old saying that says if you are the smartest person in your circle, you need to find another circle. I agree with that. But unfortunately, most folks like it in that circle. You don't really have to do anything.

Big Man said...

good post man. that figure is just sad.

buelahman said...

Its no big mystery, really. These assholes want us "dumbed down". They want inferior schools that instill inferior minds (except, of course, of the Big Money private schools the elite can fund on their own).

The Big Money folks understand that the stupider we are, the less we demand.

The "trickle-down" theory is bullshit and always has been... either financially or in education.

The stupider the lower class gets, the less we know and understand about our own plight and the very reason rednecks (and many others) will blindly follow those who are detrimental to their own good.

Big Momma Pimpalishisness said...

My first boyfriend dropped out of school in 8th grade, he's spent the last 6 years in jail. To this day I still get mad at his mother, his family, why did they let a 13 year old drop out? Who does that?


I think this is why I feel so strongly about Barack Obama running for president. More than young women need a strong female to look up to (we have many who are more appropriate, thank you very much, Hillary), the young black man needs to see someone who has achieved something more than a basketball career or a record deal and to me, that's what Obama represents. I hope that my son, who will always be considered black, even though he's mixed, can grow up to see the importance of education and hard work over all the other nonsense that society throws our way. At least that's what I'm trying to instill in him.

Aunt Jackie said...

the educational system has failed our children in more ways than one. it's a very complex situation.

teachers don't have the same regard in our community as they once did.

our schools are being used as baby sitters instead of educational systems.

our children are under fed, coming to school hungry and unkempt, fighting for their lives in their homes and on the streets making it damn near impossible for them to focus on learning...and i'm speaking of elementary school where my mother is a principal.

A lesser known fact is that in this country most black boys are labeled by third grade. it is that point that 'troubled kids' are separated from the pack and those who are competent are tracked for college.

THIRD GRADE!!!

which means that by high school and college it's too late!

Veronica Wright said...

"First is our disposition and concern of materialism in the form of objects versus what one produces with his mind. Add to that our inability to want to work hard and delay gratification for the attainment of easy money."

My ex (who is 25 now) did not grad from highschool but lies and tell everyone that he did, he went back for two weeks to try to get his diploma when he was 22 but didn't finish although he had many people cheering him on and pulling for and encouraging him. To this day he has not be keeping the jobs he gets (which are actually OK paying jobs $14/$16 per hour. But always quits. her ReFUSES to work and had not gone back to get his GED.

The SADDEST thing about it all is he is one of the smartest people that I know but he lacks the drive and had NO ambition and he'd rather live easy with his mother and let his girlfriends pay his way through life.


I truly believe that it started early. The parents/guardians/grandpartents/mentors must play an ACTIVE role in those in the education of the child even before they ENTER elementary school and it must continually be reinforced that FAILURE is not an option.

These days people are just like "oh you got a C...you passed" NO NO NO!!! C marks are the beginning signs of academic stuggle. If there is no one there to step in/reach out to find out what the problem is and if the kid does not have it in them to ask for help, that child is DOOMED.

We live in a world now where academic mediocrity is acceptable and I think if there were MORE people in place (mainly the teachers and parents) that actually GAVE a damn, these kids would be alot better off.


Sorry so long...strong feelings on the subjet

Ms. Ki said...

Excellent post. The statistics are troubling and heartbreaking. As the mother of one of those children who were labeled in third grade, it's a constant battle. Much of the responsibility falls on the parent. If the parent is not willing to be involved from day one, then they usually find out too late that their child has slipped through the cracks. My son has a learning difference. I don't like to call it a disability. I have to fight to make sure he gets the necessary attention he needs from his teachers and he's not just passed off as one of the poor souls that won't make it. He's intelligent, his brain just processes information differently. You just cannot take anything for granted. You have to check behind your kids and verify they understand. Make sure that the teachers no you care and keep an open line of communication with you. A good education is no longer a given for all children.

Melody.Darlene said...

i definitely think you should read the book "Savage Inequalities" ...its a bit dated, but nonetheless it is an amazing book. and not a lot has changed. i HIGHLY recommend it!

Don said...

good stuff.

i think the american school systems are some of the more interesting environments in the world. not really accomplished anything, just barely passing.

i don't know what to say about israel. they mean the world to the usa. but i have to believe iran will teach "big brother" a lesson after we invade the land. i hope i'm in brazil by then.

THE PRINCESS "CC" said...

Yes! Yes! Yes!

This is what we need to hear and face and deal with as a community.

Black women earn nearly two thirds of all bachelor's degrees awarded to Africans Americans

Hmmmmm....where are are OUR black males? It's so deep because if they continue to not be educated (b/c they are in jail, at home, no desire) they are not setting good examples within their families nor the communities abroad and that's where the BREAKDOWN happens, if Black males are continuously undereducated it limits their opportunities....LET ME BE CLEAR, you do not have to have a high school degree or college degree TO MAKE money, become a business owner, etc...That's takes drive and ambition alone (MY father didnt finish high school yet owns his own business, my brother on the other had is a CPA and makes money in accounting), but education allows one to possess a mental empowering force that can continously be fed and there is no limit to what research, knowledge and skills you CAN OBTAIN and it can NOT be erase it OR taken it from you.

It's important to my family especially my son because it's not always been available to the Black Community. One of the schools I attended University of Alabama was the same school gov. George Wallace stood in the door of, it's about HISTORY, just to say to people..."Nah nah nah nanny boo boo, I got a degree from a school that didn't even allow my fellow Blacks to go to" That is the SH*T in my Book and my child WILL have the same experience...sorry so long!!!! LOL

AnyaPosh said...

This is a sad reality. Good observation.

MrsGrapevine said...

I agree what is going on. I really think it had a lot to do with the crack generation, it really broke up a lot of homes, and children and to raise themselves. It make communities unnecessarily dangerous, and it provided an economic relief to the young who worshiped money. We all know someone whose parent was a crackhead. Back in the day when my mom was young, everyone had a drunk in the family, but even still that person was a functioning drunk. Drugs and welfare really hurt the family structure, and now the payout is alarming.

Emmanuelle said...

I go to a catholic Private School and we get drop outs everyday
it's really dramatic
but kids today, my generation are more into making money then using your knowledge later on for money
they want fast cash and they want it now.

If they speak english they also speak spanish, that is it.

Two years ago i wouldn't want to write this . But my strict european education ( that i use to hate) has come down to something
French
Spanish
English
Creole
(learning 2 other languages)
The thing is, if you don't thirst for knowledge you'll rebuke it.
And teachers seem to have given up on us, they either try to force it down or throats or just...watch us go.

Nice post, good stats
and btw a 70 in my school is border line making it.

Dusty said...

Torrance, the rich can still get an education..which is why this part of your post is so important:

The last front is governmental, being that more money is spent on subsidies for oil companies, big business and given to places like Israel and Pakistan than is spent on education with respect to our public schools and the pay of teachers and institutions of higher learning with the reduction of grants, student aid and loans for those interested in college.

The have's do not care if anyone else gets an education. As Edwards says..its two America's. and Its fucking wrong on every level.

Doug said...

Jaded's comment about her 7th grader made me laugh. We've been homeschooling my 12-year-old since 4th grade, and while he's really advanced in math, English, and the sciences, we've almost completely neglected his geography. So, NO, he didn't know where Chicago was, couldn't identify Illinois on a map. So guess what we've been doing for the last half hour . . .

We have our work cut out for us.

Tamra said...

This is something that's constantly on my mind too. It's really depressing.

What does it take to change the situation--turn it around? Is "turning it around" even possible? There will be a whole lot of uneducated black men running the streets in the years to come as they get older (10, 20, 30 years from now)--what do we do with them then--that is, the ones that are still alive and not in prison? What of the offspring they WILL have? --The offspring that will probably continue on the same path as their parents?

Can their collective outlook on life really be that abysmal and hopeless???

How does the cycle get stopped? Sure, "it starts at home," but what if home is part of the problem. I think that's a cop out. Shame on the mothers and fathers who don't give a rats ass, and shame on them for not wanting better lives for themselves and/or their children. I'm of the opinion that if you want something badly enough, you bust your ass to make it happen. People do it everyday--facing a variety of obstacles--sure, we have our historical issues, but it is NOT impossible to succeed. --Or at least give it a whole-hearted try.

So what's happening here--what's with the collective hopelessness that our boys/men seem to exude--in the face of abundant opportunity???

So complex...so sad...so maddening. We could spread the blame around for days. But where does this stop?

Tamra said...

Forgot to add--

The government take education seriously and make it of the same importance as Big Business, despite our diminishing ability to compete globally on a number of fronts??? HA! I won't hold my breath. Our days of empire and hegemony are in decline. We'll keep the blinders on until the last one stands... Education--or the lack thereof, is going to be our downfall.

Lovebabz said...

It is easy to lay blame everywhere except with ourselves. We fail children everyday in America. The education system is US, the legislative body that governs and controls where our dollars are spent is US. Thse folks aren't from another planet. If no one shows up to a PTA meeting, City Council, Board of Education meeting, then we have a system that doesn't address our needs. Sure parents bear a great deal of the responsiblity, but saying that doesn't let anyone of us off the hook. We use that excuse to walk away from what we know needs our immediate attention. Every child ought ot be YOUR child. Their education should be a priority for the entire community.

It isn't enough to rant and wring our hnads and shake our heads about how fucked-up the system is. The power to make the changes rest in the hands and hearts of each and everyone of us. I have taught on the High School level, I have taught on the college level. I ran a national presidential award-winning school readiness program. It is all the same need...commitment to children everyday, all day, by everyone. Starting at the earliest age possible.

Torrance Stephens bka All-Mi-T said...

The Urban Scientist
From a fellow scientist i take it as an honor and will try

The True Urban Queen aka Sharon
sad indeed...I know a girl who is supporting two of her nieces who at sixteen and seventeen she has allowed to drop out of school. I asked her what did they plan on doing and how would they get jobs to support themselves she just shrugged. And the worse thing is the sixteen year old can not read (she can read on a a first grade level. The way she struggles is heartbreaking).
That is a failure on the school system but, also on the parents who do not teach the importance of education.
dang

D'lee Trecia
You seem to have taken i seriously u just have a greater desire now to do what u have regarding hearing and vison - hats off to u


12kyle
Startling huh folk


the prisoner's wife said...
ditto on the it's dismal to saw the least. at least u trying Im just critisizing

The Jaded NYer
Hey at least he could ask the question, many students dont even ask - take it as a modicum of hope - a sahme still


Clay Lowe
Good look and i bet it was drop the honest review one day when u can


Haute in LA said...
On my knees with u

Lena said...
yep we all are the problem


Tha BossMack TopSoil
u probably see the same i see folk, bad is bad everywhere

THE PRINCESS "CC"
I just hope you can make certain your son does, cause peers may have a devistaing impact & thanks sister

AnyaPosh
Thank u maam, and do come back again if u can

MrsGrapevine
That was about the time it startd to g to pieces



Emmanuelle
kids today, my generation are more into making money then using your knowledge later on for money
they want fast cash and they want it now.
this so true
The European nd the African as well as Asian schools still doing what they do - making scientist and skilled folks

Dusty said...
I know but they need to care if they want to make money because a dumb person will loose u money and a person with no way to generate income wont become a consumer base


Doug
I like home schooling a lot, i wasnt home schoolled but was in sort of a way, like the tom jefferson chekih and diop way, read all the time.

Tamra said...
depressing and sad. i does stat at home and we have to place it above cars, purses, suits, tennis and the likes


Rich
We want all to be easy and by giving they learn to ask but not work save or build, il trhow in create



Terry
Thank u. well stated also. How do we alter the perpetuation of such perceptions

Big Man
Thanks folk


buelahman said...
I agree, they are anal pores and they want us stupid. PSA folks, stupid folks are easily exploited.


Big Momma Pimpalishisness
He is at least an example of what responed to re RICH


Aunt Jackie said...
Yo and babz be bring the heat is all i can say


Veronica Wright said...
go as long s u ant, thats why i always tell my son and one can be mediocre


Ms. Ki
well keep the faith and work with him my fellow parent


Melody.Darlene said...
dated dont mine me none if it is good thanks and appluase for the reccomendation

Don
Do hope that dont mean more of our folk gotta shed blood for the ultra wealth geopoliticals


Lovebabz said...
I could not have said it in a more terse fashion

Mizrepresent said...

I hear you T, so much...i am trying to save/encourage my son right now...he's gotten caught up in some stuff that adults have introduced him too...he ain't a bad kid, just listened to bad advice. But i ain't giving up, no, not at all, and he ain't either...he has had some experiences i would have never thought of... he's went through some things, i could have never conceived...but in the end...i know he is worth saving, he will forever be worth saving in my eyes.

no_slappz said...

rdb, you wrote:

"The last front is governmental, being that more money is spent on subsidies for oil companies, big business and given to places like Israel and Pakistan than is spent on education with respect to our public schools and the pay of teachers and institutions of higher learning with the reduction of grants, student aid and loans for those interested in college."

In a word, the preceding is FALSE.

Here's a few facts. Last year, Exxon's revenue was $404 billion. Out of that $404 billion, Exxon paid $106 billion in taxes to governments around the world.

Exxon's profit was $70 billion and it paid $30 billion of income taxes in the US.

New York City's budget for this year is about $45 billion. The Department of Education gets $15 billion -- one-third -- of the budget.

There are about 1 million students in the NY City public school system. Thus, the annual per-student expenditures are now $15,000.

However, there is no doubt about which students are the best and worst in New York City. At the top are the asian students. They acount for 14% of all students in the system, but as a group, they score highest on all academic achievement test given in the public school system.

Many of them come from families that have recently arrived in the US. Many do not speak English when they arrive. Many arrive poor.

But they learn fast.

The top public high schools in NY City are open to ANYONE who passes the entrance exams. Who goes to these top high schools? The largest group is asian. They account for 50% of the student body at the best high schools. Whites are next at about 42%.

Blacks and hispanics account for about 8% of the students at the top high schools. But they account for 70% of the overall student body in New York City.

School spending is not the problem. Every school district receives huge percentages of local budgets. Teacher salaries are not the problem. Plenty of people apply for teaching positions except for jobs teaching math and science.

As always, academic achievement is a reflection of the culture and attitudes found in the settings from which the kids emerge.

With respect to paying for college, well, there are lots of ways. I paid my own way. No help from mom and dad. Of course one of the best ways is to work hard in high school and take real courses, like science and math -- physics, chemistry and calculus. Good grades in those subjects lead to scholarships and many other deals on tuition.

High scores on SATs and Achievement Tests make a huge difference. Doing well on those tests can lead to receiving college credit enabling students to skip as much as a year of required courses.

But kids who major in disciplines like sociology and a lot of other "soft" subjects will have limited job opportunities when they graduate. Therefore, kids should decide early on the value and importance they place on degrees in Humanities and Social Sciences before spending a lot of borrowed money they might have trouble repaying.

In short, education is available to everyone, and it is available at almost any price level. The system has its flaws, but it denies no one.

Aunt Jackie said...

no slapz i am not a NY resident any more but I am a California resident and I'm aware that California is the 6TH LARGEST ECONOMY IN THE WORLD, and it's currently operating at a deficeit! The higher salaries in education go to Administrators and Consultants but don't trickle down to the post grads working to pay off college loans or the old guard, apathetic and hateful, protected by a strong arm union.

I say this as I have had a mother in education for over 20 and i have relatives working with budgets on the state level.

Here in Los Angeles we have celebrities doing book drives to replace the substandard text books, sometimes over ten years old that are being used in class rooms.

Add to that racial tension without proper security, which equals riots at school where teachers are hurt in the cross fire and tell me that this is not fundamentally an economic crisis that the gov't perpetuates....and If California is the 6th largest economy in the world, where does that put the children of Mississippi, Louisiana and other poorer states?

California has resorted to allow Private entities to invest in schools called charter schools, which will surely be the next wave of segregation and now Russians, Mexicans, European Immigrants and every other sub grouping can have their own school, their own PUBLIC school to suit their interests.


Don't let the numbers fool you. I know educators in NY, and they certainly don't have 15k per student per year...not at all.

sorry to over comment but clearly this is a subject that i am passionate about!

Aunt Jackie said...

no slapz i am not a NY resident any more but I am a California resident and I'm aware that California is the 6TH LARGEST ECONOMY IN THE WORLD, and it's currently operating at a deficeit! The higher salaries in education go to Administrators and Consultants but don't trickle down to the post grads working to pay off college loans or the old guard, apathetic and hateful, protected by a strong arm union.

I say this as I have had a mother in education for over 20 and i have relatives working with budgets on the state level.

Here in Los Angeles we have celebrities doing book drives to replace the substandard text books, sometimes over ten years old that are being used in class rooms.

Add to that racial tension without proper security, which equals riots at school where teachers are hurt in the cross fire and tell me that this is not fundamentally an economic crisis that the gov't perpetuates....and If California is the 6th largest economy in the world, where does that put the children of Mississippi, Louisiana and other poorer states?

California has resorted to allow Private entities to invest in schools called charter schools, which will surely be the next wave of segregation and now Russians, Mexicans, European Immigrants and every other sub grouping can have their own school, their own PUBLIC school to suit their interests.


Don't let the numbers fool you. I know educators in NY, and they certainly don't have 15k per student per year...not at all.

sorry to over comment but clearly this is a subject that i am passionate about!

Torrance Stephens bka All-Mi-T said...

Mizrepresent
i am sure u doing the right thing


no_slappz
I don’t live in NYC. Democratic centralism, down here the have reduced avalible funds and raised tuition in the state system. Which is governmental aint like I got a chance to dcide, just cause elect a mutha fucka don’t mean u in on the decision process – feculent is such a supposition, and folk here don’t ge down like that


Spending may not be the problem and u know me, I a cheap and frugal man so u have not assumed my suggestion is to throw money at education. No they ar 1] we need to spend on education in general, 2] find out where we can maximize the utility of the dolar their off. And look at it as if a it was axomatic set theory (an example and I have used prior) as if we re dealing with the von Neumann-Bernays-Godel and Morse-Kelley formulations, as if problem solving is a set of interactive axioms


Slapz, I aided my own pay as wel and this in a time when my moms husbad had been laid off by Firestone (out sourced production to some asian nation but neither here nor there).

I didn’t have a high SAT score, mine was 690 combined.

I consider no subject SOFT. Next Philosophy or any study of history would be soft.

If they say we need democratic governmnt in this democracy, then the mandate is recriprocal to having an educated populus, so u make the call folk



Aunt Jackie
I agree, numbers can be misleading

and no such thing as over comment subaltern commenting, maybe but never over

no_slappz said...

aunt jackie, your comment deserves a few responses.

First, states cannot engage in deficit spending like the federal government. There may be revenue gaps in the proposed CA budget, but they will be closed before any budget is approved.

As for the schools themselves, you are only showing that school management stinks. Lousy management is not a result of funding. In school systems financial problems follow from corruption in all its forms.

Take note that private schools have few of the problems found in the public school systems.

As for who gets paid, well, virtually every administrator in every public school system is a former teacher. In fact, consultants are usually former teachers too.

One obvious difference between public and private schools is that private schools have small bureaucracies and they don't spend much on consultants.


You mentioned racial tension. Where does racial tension originate? With Teachers? No. With Adminstrators? No. Between students? Yes.

Racial tention is a problem brought to school by students, and it is one problem that school systems have no legal authority to stop.

Liberal law-making has resulted in toothless disciplinary powers in schools. It is hard to remove disruptive students, and their presence destroys the learning environment for the others.

YOu claim that these problems are both economic and perpetuated by the government.

That's just nonsense. Lousy economic performance by students leads to a permanent drag on the economy. NOBODY benefits if a government acts as you suggest. NOBODY.

I agree that many foolish practices exist. But none are motivated by a bad governmental attitude, as you suggest.

Meanwhile, to continue my example of the NY City school system, as I said, the average annual per-pupil expenditure is now $15,000. But the per-pupil expenditure for students attending the top high schools in NYC is $10,000 a year. One-third LESS than the cost for the average student and a much, much less than the expenditure for each kid in the worst-performing schools, where the teaching staff is heavily supported by tutors and other remedial service-providers.

Students suffer from the effects of fatherlessness, illegitimacy, the presence of substance abuse and the existence of bad attitudes about education. None of this is the fault of the school systems in this country and school systems can do little to overcome the impact of all the social pathologies undermining the education of millions of kids.

As for Charter Schools, they exist in New York. All I can say is let's get more of them! As fast as possible.

Students from all over the world are enrolled in NY City public schools. As I previously mentioned, the asian students have risen to the top. But many students from Russia and other former Soviet republics are also rising to the top.

I should mention that a couple of years ago I taught high school math in NY City. It was quite an experience and I can tell you with absolute certainty that there are huge differences between students and many of the important important differences correlate with race and ethnicity.

Torrance Stephens bka All-Mi-T said...

Slapz

Thats the nail, management. How do they run shit to maximize all outputs and incomes. I had no father, i did not suffer except on the economic end of not having two incomes.

yes i do claim that they are abeited by both economic and perpetuated by the government.
If a epidemic broke out, or a flood or hurricaine, and there was no prepardness when their was warning, or an epidemic with respect t education - yes. Plausible deniabilty is not an option. Last I heard this is not a socialist nation. Having parents to assist with helping with homework versus having two jobs is a factor too - economic which you cannot ignore. Regardless of race or gender.

And you forgot media, cultural interference and a whole lot of other stuff. If one doesnt have money for adequate meals, black or white, crack household or not, attnetion will be impacted as well as focus. You just show me how economics and federal policy, or state policy currently or historic has not played some role in what he have currently, or could not play some positive roll in dealing with this epidemic, my fault, behavioral epidemiologist here

msladydeborah said...

T,

You know that you are preaching to my choir with this post.

What really bothers me about the stats on the number of dropouts, is the fact there has not been an accurate record kept in all 50 states. I wrote a post this topic last month.

It blew me away that there is not reall an accurate method to keep track of the number of people who drop out. The figure that are given are part uniformed standard and part guestamation. Why? If the educational system was concerned about bottom line results~isn't the number of non graduates a major part of that data?

But I do not solely hold the system responsible for this. There are parents and adult members of our society that do not question why?

Nor do they take time to become involved in what happens in terms of their child's personal education. Or their own.

The dumbing down of America is a national disgrace! Period. And what really bothers me about Black people is the fact that we have free resources in this country and will not use them! Nor will we take time to use our resources to develop more or better.

It is a problem that needs repair. Before things totally flatline.

no_slappz said...

msladydeborah,

There is no way to determine the number of dropouts because there is no school is in the business of tracking the whereabouts of former students.

My family moved from NY to Illinois after I finished 1st grade. The school I attended in kindergarten and first grade had no knowledge of my activities after I completed first grade.

After I finished 7th grade, my family moved from Illinois to Connecticut. Again, there was no correspondence between the schools I attended.

The most common reason for correspondence between schools occurs in the college admission process. But other than that, there is virtually none.

My older son attended a public school in NY City, then switched to private school, then jumped back to public school. As long as he remains in the New York City public school system, an active file will exist for him. But if he were to return to private school, the NYC public school system would have no idea what had become of him.

My younger son has attended two NYC public schools. Same story. If he were to leave for private school, the public school system would have an inactive file in storage. It's not the school's business to track former students. Many people would consider such activities a government invasion of privacy.

School systems cannot do what is humanly impossible and they cannot anything that exceeds their legal authority, which means they can't do much.

As for your statement that we have "free resources in this country", well, that is far from true.

Property taxes pay the bulk of the bills for public school systems. Thus, school is not free. However, if you want to pay higher property taxes, then it is possible for cities and towns to authorize higher school budgets. But student performance will not improve.

Acquiring useful knowledge that leads to desirable employment takes work. It is also impossible to avoid the fact that too many people study "soft" subjects that have no particular job relevance.

Personally, I majored in engineering and subsequently studied finance. But I took a lot of English courses too. But there are very few jobs for people with English degrees, though English majors are as capable as anyone of learning important skill on the job.

Long story short, the more problems that students bring to school with them, the less success they will have. Life may have unfaily dumped extra troubles on their heads, but that doesn't matter.

Like I said, learning math and science is the route to a job. Of course if a student simply hates math and science, there will be problems.

In any case, as always, the solution lies within. One person cannot do the learning for another.

Kieya said...

Its true, the value of education has definitely gone down.

I mean, if the government shows they don't care, some of the teachers don't care, some parents don't care -- then the children aren't gonna care either. Unfortunately its been an ongoing cycle.

no_slappz said...

kieya, you wrote:

"I mean, if the government shows they don't care, some of the teachers don't care, some parents don't care -- then the children aren't gonna care either. Unfortunately its been an ongoing cycle."

Putting this another way, if some people jump out the window, then some other people jump out the window, then a few more jump out the window, then some children will jump out the window too.

You are making the point that a lot of people are unable to think for themselves. You are right.

What is your solution?

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